Due to some abuse with the simply walking through wild growths on Optional, we have now changed it to behave exactly like magic walls. That means that also wild growths (rushwood) will be destroyed when you walk on it and it is not from a war enemy.

Please give your vote to this question.

EDIT: Due to the very split feedback, we have decided to not change wild growth on Optional for now. We will try and find a better solution. Until then, it will be left as it is now.
________________

I'm not a man of too many faces, The mask I wear is one. (Sting) A very good approach on how to play Tibia WITH others rather than AGAINST!

I'm not sure, it is bad idea ; /
________________

†

 Wild Growths = Magic Wall CANT trap Hard Bosses !

it is bad idea ...

alot ppl destroy Magic Walls when use in Optional PvP

now they will destroy also Wild Growths

Impossible trap Hard Bosses

ppl in Optional PvP dont respect others ppl

always they do something to disturb

in my server when we trap orshabaal
with Magic Walls only 1 other knight come
and just walk and "exeta res" to lure on shooters

alot ppl die ...


you do already change to some bosses walk over fields

now if change Wild Growths also be impossible to trap the creature in an Optional PvP


because this I disagree , dont change Wild Growths



Sorry my bad english

On the other hand, people now abuse wild growth to trap themselves in and thereby be safe from the boss outside. That is something unacceptable which is the reason for this.
________________

I'm not a man of too many faces, The mask I wear is one. (Sting) A very good approach on how to play Tibia WITH others rather than AGAINST!

why is it unacceptable?

Originally posted by Craban on 15.09.2010 18:35:27:
> On the other hand, people now abuse wild growth to
> trap themselves in and thereby be safe from the boss
> outside. That is something unacceptable which is the
> reason for this.


anyway will still be possible do this ...


Im lvl 180 i can run "utani gran hur"
and use wild growths to kill boss solo style


and I dont need walk in "rushwood"


but big problem in Optional PvP

is because ppl will walk in "rushwood" and remove Wild Growths


I can destroy 10 Magic Walls JUST walking fast


if possible do the same as Open PvP to Optional PvP

" Use Machete to destroy Wild Growths " is better


 

The entire idea behind wild growth and magic wall is to protect yourself or others from dangers...

What else is it for if not that?

Originally posted by Craban on 15.09.2010 18:35:27:
> On the other hand, people now abuse wild growth to
> trap themselves in and thereby be safe from the boss
> outside. That is something unacceptable which is the
> reason for this.
________________

One Day o/

Originally posted by Craban on 15.09.2010 18:35:27:
> On the other hand, people now abuse wild growth to
> trap themselves in and thereby be safe from the boss
> outside. That is something unacceptable which is the
> reason for this.


People seem to forget, and you included, that wild growth can already be removed, using a machete.

Your argument doesn't hold. Bosses all have distance attacks... wild growth ... can be shot through and thus it's not safe to use to "hide" from bosses.

People are highly correct in saying magic walls now are just instantly destroyed by players walking through them, even when used in wars, non-involved people do it. It's almost a race to see who can destroy them first when someone uses them.

This change gives more power to the players who engage in destructive behavior.
________________

Sorry you can't handle the truth... but that's not my problem, it's yours.

If your saying its unacceptable to use wild growths to hide from bosses, why not change bosses instead making them able to break magic walls and wild growths like they do to items in the way.
________________

One Day o/

that's very bad idea rofl
________________

Originally posted by Nightmare Knnight on 15.09.2010 19:21:15:
> If your saying its unacceptable to use wild growths
> to hide from bosses, why not change bosses instead
> making them able to break magic walls and wild
> growths like they do to items in the way.

Bad idea. This makes many of those bosses unkillable. They would need to make challenge work 100% of the time, without switching right away, for that to work.
________________

Never judge one by their level or skills; judge them by their kindness and personality.

I can understand it with magic walls since there is no way to destroy them, but you can easily use machete on wild growths to make them disappear.

Change field runes instead so all monsters can walk directly over them if they get attacked (not going the long way just to reach you). They are being abused by low level pallys and mages to kill bigger stuff without getting hit. It is worse than stairhopping.

I know that it isnt about pvp, but seeing you are changing some rune effects, you could also do this.
________________

Boss Raids for EVERYONE! NO MORE CHEATERS ON HIGHSCORES! Few ideas for vocation balancing Bazinga!

>
> Change field runes instead so all monsters can walk
> directly over them if they get attacked (not going
> the long way just to reach you). They are being
> abused by low level pallys and mages to kill bigger
> stuff without getting hit. It is worse than
> stairhopping.

No. This has been a tactic on open pvp servers for years.

-Taure
________________

Never judge one by their level or skills; judge them by their kindness and personality.

Originally posted by Craban on 15.09.2010 16:59:31:
> Due to some abuse with the simply walking through
> wild growths on Optional, we have now changed it to
> behave exactly like magic walls. That means that also
> wild growths (rushwood) will be destroyed when you
> walk on it and it is not from a war enemy.

I understand your point and agree to it.

But I also have to agree with Ab Devil

It's a race to see who can destroy them first when someone uses them. lol

they're useless
________________

Moderator of fototibia.com The difference between you and me is that I don't need to hide myself behind a noob char.

Originally posted by Taure on 16.09.2010 00:14:39:
> >
> > Change field runes instead so all monsters can
> walk
> > directly over them if they get attacked (not going
> > the long way just to reach you). They are being
> > abused by low level pallys and mages to kill
> bigger
> > stuff without getting hit. It is worse than
> > stairhopping.
>
> No. This has been a tactic on open pvp servers for
> years.
>
> -Taure

I see it more like an abuse of a game weakness, do you think it is right that a lvl 40 pally can kill behemoths without getting hit? In optional pvp people dont even get hit by their own fields so as I said, it is the same as stairhop, or worse since you can do it anywhere at anytime.
________________

Boss Raids for EVERYONE! NO MORE CHEATERS ON HIGHSCORES! Few ideas for vocation balancing Bazinga!

 Guys Read Again ! Craban said Optional PvP !

will NOT change in Open PvP

if u dont know how it works in Optional PvP !

dont say shit lol ...


and ... Wild Growths ... only DRUIDS can use it ...

is not cheap to use it

hunting with Wild Growths is much waste money

also have just 2 charges each Wild Growths

magic wall = 3 charges

if will do change put Wild Growths = Open PvP will be fine
to remove using machete

if change as magic wall in Optional PvP is bad idea
because is much easy remove just walking

change to use machete to remove also put DELAY
will be better for all worlds


 

Awesome idea! It was already possible that people could destroy wild growth rune with machete, so why does it make difference if you can just destroy it while you walk through them? (You need to go close to the wild growth anyway, so why somebody cant use machete on it instead of walking; its exactly the same!) On the other hand people on Optional pvp were abusing it buy just trapping the way for monster and kill them without getting single damage from them. It's really good idea. I support it.

Nothing against this change, out of usual worthless rants.


Aleppe
________________

INFLICTING PAIN ON GRIEFERS PVP BLESSING LIMIT CONTAINERS CAP! §OLD ACCOUNTS§ Ancients power

 

Hi

Originally posted by Aleppe on 16.09.2010 10:49:30:
> Nothing against this change, out of usual worthless
> rants.
>
>
> Aleppe

No. The main fact still remain unknown..

Optional pvp:

1. You can walk trough wild growth runes
2. You can not!! destroy them with a machete.

So this changes makes them by far worse. Im fully against it! killing some bosses will be a pain, because people will now be able to destroy them.

And to repeat it once more:

Its currently impossible to destroy wild growth in optional pvp
________________

Solve the depot trashing problem

Ok, I'll explain in a little more detail what I meant:

It is not unacceptable that people use wild growth to make clever hunts. BUT, it IS unacceptable how it is done right now:

You get into a room with a boss you usually cannot kill because it will kill you. This kind of monster is usually also too fast for you to really put a big distance between you and the monster.

Now, what people do is they shoot 3 WGs to block a corner and AFTER that walk into that spot:
_____
|X Wg
|WgWg

From then on, the monster can be shot at easily without big danger.

What it should be like is that someone first has to walk into that corner and then closes the last entry with WG. That however is hard to do against stronger monsters and bosses, a lot harder than it is to prepare and then just ghost through one of the WGs.

This abuse was reported to us and we agree that it is a weakness of how WGs work right now, and that is the reason why we changed it.

You can still use WGs against monsters as it is intended, but this trick will not work anymore.
________________

I'm not a man of too many faces, The mask I wear is one. (Sting) A very good approach on how to play Tibia WITH others rather than AGAINST!

Hi

Originally posted by Craban on 16.09.2010 13:09:56:
> Ok, I'll explain in a little more detail what I
> meant:
>
> It is not unacceptable that people use wild growth to
> make clever hunts. BUT, it IS unacceptable how it is
> done right now:
>
> You get into a room with a boss you usually cannot
> kill because it will kill you. This kind of monster
> is usually also too fast for you to really put a big
> distance between you and the monster.
>
> Now, what people do is they shoot 3 WGs to block a
> corner and AFTER that walk into that spot:
> _____
> |X Wg
> |WgWg
>
> From then on, the monster can be shot at easily
> without big danger.
>
> What it should be like is that someone first has to
> walk into that corner and then closes the last entry
> with WG. That however is hard to do against stronger
> monsters and bosses, a lot harder than it is to
> prepare and then just ghost through one of the WGs.
>
> This abuse was reported to us and we agree that it is
> a weakness of how WGs work right now, and that is the
> reason why we changed it.
>
> You can still use WGs against monsters as it is
> intended, but this trick will not work anymore.

This sort of abuses have been mentioned exactly at the first discussion thread where you wrote about the changes for wild growth and magic walls...

The only question is, is that abuse worse then the one which we will see now, that people destroy others boss hunts with ease.

Together with the awesome combo that luring is up to legal because there is no way to catch anyone doing so it will in my opinion be by far worse then the abuse we have now.

All inquisition bosses who are normally trapped with wild growth, the bosses in wrath of the emperor quest and others are up to allways blocked with magic walls.

What will happen now? One high level knight will come into any quest service, challenge the boss away to the shooters and this will be the origin of many death.

Edit:

Speaking one more time about luring:

The often only way to protect yourself and your team is using the UNDESTRUCTABLE wild growth runes! Magic walls dont help at all.

So clearly said: This changes will not only have an influence at boss hunts but at the everyday situation of luring which has even increase lately thanks to the "deletion" or Gamemasters.
________________

Solve the depot trashing problem

Originally posted by Craban on 16.09.2010 13:09:56:
> Ok, I'll explain in a little more detail what I
> meant:
>
> It is not unacceptable that people use wild growth to
> make clever hunts. BUT, it IS unacceptable how it is
> done right now:
>
> You get into a room with a boss you usually cannot
> kill because it will kill you. This kind of monster
> is usually also too fast for you to really put a big
> distance between you and the monster.
>
> Now, what people do is they shoot 3 WGs to block a
> corner and AFTER that walk into that spot:
> _____
> |X Wg
> |WgWg
>
> From then on, the monster can be shot at easily
> without big danger.
>
> What it should be like is that someone first has to
> walk into that corner and then closes the last entry
> with WG. That however is hard to do against stronger
> monsters and bosses, a lot harder than it is to
> prepare and then just ghost through one of the WGs.
>
> This abuse was reported to us and we agree that it is
> a weakness of how WGs work right now, and that is the
> reason why we changed it.
>
> You can still use WGs against monsters as it is
> intended, but this trick will not work anymore.


With the way you describe the problem, and taking into consideration that wild growths are destroyable with other machetes, why not remove the ability to walk through them? That makes more sense.
________________

Sorry you can't handle the truth... but that's not my problem, it's yours.

Hi

Originally posted by Ab Devil on 16.09.2010 18:05:28:
> Originally posted by Craban on 16.09.2010
> 13:09:56:
> > Ok, I'll explain in a little more detail what I
> > meant:
> >
> > It is not unacceptable that people use wild growth
> to
> > make clever hunts. BUT, it IS unacceptable how it
> is
> > done right now:
> >
> > You get into a room with a boss you usually cannot
> > kill because it will kill you. This kind of
> monster
> > is usually also too fast for you to really put a
> big
> > distance between you and the monster.
> >
> > Now, what people do is they shoot 3 WGs to block a
> > corner and AFTER that walk into that spot:
> > _____
> > |X Wg
> > |WgWg
> >
> > From then on, the monster can be shot at easily
> > without big danger.
> >
> > What it should be like is that someone first has
> to
> > walk into that corner and then closes the last
> entry
> > with WG. That however is hard to do against
> stronger
> > monsters and bosses, a lot harder than it is to
> > prepare and then just ghost through one of the
> WGs.
> >
> > This abuse was reported to us and we agree that it
> is
> > a weakness of how WGs work right now, and that is
> the
> > reason why we changed it.
> >
> > You can still use WGs against monsters as it is
> > intended, but this trick will not work anymore.
>
>
> With the way you describe the problem, and taking
> into consideration that wild growths are destroyable
> with other machetes, why not remove the ability to
> walk through them? That makes more sense.

But you do remember the reason why magic walls are destroyed when you walk on them and wild growth can currently be walked through??

This has greatly improved the luring situation!

If you must waste time to use a machete to cut down the wild growth runes used from people to abuse the sense of it (block players to escape a trap) it will mean by far more death.

Its not rare that a team of 2-3 people lure at one player. If they are all druids he will be dead for sure.

So to speak clearly:

Wild growth will be more often used agressively to block other players from escaping a trap then to protect players if your idea comes into the game.
________________

Solve the depot trashing problem

Originally posted by Magus Firefly on 16.09.2010 18:21:57:


> So to speak clearly:
>
> Wild growth will be more often used agressively to
> block other players from escaping a trap then to
> protect players if your idea comes into the game.


And Craban's idea makes them useless to the point both m-walls and wild growth should be deleted from the game entirely on pvp-optional worlds. Already m-walls are useless, as has been pointed out, using them results in nothing more then a race to see who can destroy them first. That will be the fate of wild growth (which people already tend to break fast anyway, since it can be cut down).

To solve one small problem (Craban's argument people are using them to hunt bosses/harder creatures a bit safer), creates a bigger issue... that is making yet another rune useless.
________________

Sorry you can't handle the truth... but that's not my problem, it's yours.

This is a bad idea.
________________

WE WANT BEHOLDERS BACK, SERIOUS PROPOSAL

Hi

Originally posted by Ab Devil on 16.09.2010 21:48:57:

> And Craban's idea makes them useless to the point
> both m-walls and wild growth should be deleted from
> the game entirely on pvp-optional worlds. Already
> m-walls are useless, as has been pointed out, using
> them results in nothing more then a race to see who
> can destroy them first. That will be the fate of wild
> growth (which people already tend to break fast
> anyway, since it can be cut down).

NO!!

You can not cut down any wild growth rune in optional pvp worlds!

Seems all have missed that...


> To solve one small problem (Craban's argument people
> are using them to hunt bosses/harder creatures a bit
> safer), creates a bigger issue... that is making yet
> another rune useless.

Hunting the bosses with this tactic is very dangerous. All bosses live longer then a wild growth rune, even more if you hunt them with a weak team. This means when the boss runs in the self made trap it will be worst chaos, I would say sure death for several.

And speaking about my experience in Refugia, I know noone who ever hunts bosses this way. I think only very courageous and skilled fighters will try that against an inquisition Boss for example.

So with this "solution" we will exchange a small abuse against by far worse abuses in my opinion.
________________

Solve the depot trashing problem

Ok, the original reason to change both mwalls and wild growth last year was to eliminate the abuse on optional PvP that these were used to trap kill people in huntinggrounds by monsters. We had to alter both so that you cannot use mwall or wild growth to kill other players.

This would also have to apply to interference with wars you are not part of, so only war enemies can block their enemies with wild growth or mwalls.

We thought it would be nice to have wild growth work different to mwalls, yet this new abuse (and I do know people who have easy leveled with this) also has to be taken care of.

That is why wild growth now works exactly like mwall in this respect, so its use is basically limited to certain war scenarios and to hunting monsters where you are reasonably sure that you have no people with you who want to annoy you.

This is the tradeoff to avoid other abuses and it is the defensive version. The worst that can be done is that these things get removed too easily. That is better in our eyes than the other abuses where these things can decide about a death or not because they cannot be removed.
________________

I'm not a man of too many faces, The mask I wear is one. (Sting) A very good approach on how to play Tibia WITH others rather than AGAINST!

I cant believe u guys.

This is a BAD IDEA.

Wild growths were the only chance to stay safe incase someone lures on you for the fact they cant destroy it!
And how the hell we gonna trap a boss now with all the noobs that will destroy them?

I really suggest u reconsider cause ur messing it up!
Either make us walk through or it make it so u cant walk thru it. EVERYTHING CAN BE ABUSED BUT WE HAVE LEARNED TO LIVE WITH IT..
________________

~Kal Haley~

Originally posted by Magus Firefly on 16.09.2010 16:42:17:
> Hi
>
> Originally posted by Craban on 16.09.2010
> 13:09:56:
> > Ok, I'll explain in a little more detail what I
> > meant:
> >
> > It is not unacceptable that people use wild growth
> to
> > make clever hunts. BUT, it IS unacceptable how it
> is
> > done right now:
> >
> > You get into a room with a boss you usually cannot
> > kill because it will kill you. This kind of
> monster
> > is usually also too fast for you to really put a
> big
> > distance between you and the monster.
> >
> > Now, what people do is they shoot 3 WGs to block a
> > corner and AFTER that walk into that spot:
> > _____
> > |X Wg
> > |WgWg
> >
> > From then on, the monster can be shot at easily
> > without big danger.
> >
> > What it should be like is that someone first has
> to
> > walk into that corner and then closes the last
> entry
> > with WG. That however is hard to do against
> stronger
> > monsters and bosses, a lot harder than it is to
> > prepare and then just ghost through one of the
> WGs.
> >
> > This abuse was reported to us and we agree that it
> is
> > a weakness of how WGs work right now, and that is
> the
> > reason why we changed it.
> >
> > You can still use WGs against monsters as it is
> > intended, but this trick will not work anymore.
>
> This sort of abuses have been mentioned exactly at
> the first discussion thread where you wrote about the
> changes for wild growth and magic walls...
>
> The only question is, is that abuse worse then the
> one which we will see now, that people destroy others
> boss hunts with ease.
>
> Together with the awesome combo that luring is up to
> legal because there is no way to catch anyone doing
> so it will in my opinion be by far worse then the
> abuse we have now.
>
> All inquisition bosses who are normally trapped with
> wild growth, the bosses in wrath of the emperor quest
> and others are up to allways blocked with magic
> walls.
>
> What will happen now? One high level knight will come
> into any quest service, challenge the boss away to
> the shooters and this will be the origin of many
> death.
>
> Edit:
>
> Speaking one more time about luring:
>
> The often only way to protect yourself and your team
> is using the UNDESTRUCTABLE wild growth runes! Magic
> walls dont help at all.
>
> So clearly said: This changes will not only have an
> influence at boss hunts but at the everyday situation
> of luring which has even increase lately thanks to
> the "deletion" or Gamemasters.


I always carry wild growths with me.
Why? Because of THIS. They are a sure guarantee to keep me AND my friend safe incase someone starts luring on us. I can close the way with tree walls where 1: The creature cannot reach us, so the luring doesnt work!
2: The player luring isnt trapped because he/she can just walk thru it

Conclusion: Wild Growth WAS a life safer. But now is messed up.
________________

~Kal Haley~

Hi

Originally posted by Craban on 17.09.2010 10:50:13:
> Ok, the original reason to change both mwalls and
> wild growth last year was to eliminate the abuse on
> optional PvP that these were used to trap kill people
> in huntinggrounds by monsters. We had to alter both
> so that you cannot use mwall or wild growth to kill
> other players.
>
> This would also have to apply to interference with
> wars you are not part of, so only war enemies can
> block their enemies with wild growth or mwalls.
>
> We thought it would be nice to have wild growth work
> different to mwalls, yet this new abuse (and I do
> know people who have easy leveled with this) also has
> to be taken care of.
>
> That is why wild growth now works exactly like mwall
> in this respect, so its use is basically limited to
> certain war scenarios and to hunting monsters where
> you are reasonably sure that you have no people with
> you who want to annoy you.
>

In optional pvp worlds you are never sure that noone will come to lure. Even less if you dont be silent when people lure and destroy quest services, so do things which are not allowed.

Wild growth have saved us many times against lurers. At every luring attempt to be honest.

> This is the tradeoff to avoid other abuses and it is
> the defensive version. The worst that can be done is
> that these things get removed too easily. That is
> better in our eyes than the other abuses where these
> things can decide about a death or not because they
> cannot be removed.

I fully agree that this is the better solution (of course not agreeing that its better then the current situation...).

But I dont agree at all that its difficult to remove them. Its very easy and very fast.
We have no problems to destroy magic walls shot by lurers to block us. Never up to now.
The same will count even more for those who come to destroy services/hunts with the new wild growth runes.
________________

Solve the depot trashing problem

So, let me ask this as a question with a short answer:

Do you prefer wild growth to stay as it is now including the hunting abuse that I outlined or do you prefer it being treated just like mwalls meaning to remove that abuse? Please just give yes or no answers.
________________

I'm not a man of too many faces, The mask I wear is one. (Sting) A very good approach on how to play Tibia WITH others rather than AGAINST!

Hi

Originally posted by Craban on 17.09.2010 12:26:37:
> So, let me ask this as a question with a short
> answer:
>
> Do you prefer wild growth to stay as it is now
> including the hunting abuse that I outlined or do you
> prefer it being treated just like mwalls meaning to
> remove that abuse? Please just give yes or no
> answers.

Ah you should rewrite this question, else I reply with Yes and you dont know at all what opinion I have

So not:

Do you prefer this or that?

Reply: Yes I do prefer this or that


Better something like:

(Edit: Forgot the last sentence.. )

1. Do you prefer wild growth to stay as it is now
including the hunting abuse that I outlined.
2. Do you prefer it being treated just like mwalls meaning to remove that abuse?

Now just write:
I prefer point 1
or
I prefer point 2
________________

Solve the depot trashing problem

Craban

Put Wild Growth on Optional PvP

=

Wild Growth on Open PvP


do it Possible Remove in Optional PvP using Machete

NOT walking

Walking is ABUSE


sorry but u question was confuse i cant say Yes or No


but if will change = Magic Walll walk to remove its bad idea


keep Wild Growth stay as it is now


or do as I said ...


Remove using Machete all Worlds

NOT walking





 

Ah yes, I didn't really ask a yes or no question, so here we go now:

Do you prefer wild growth as it is on live servers (walk through) to here on test (destroy when walking on it)? Yes or No?
________________

I'm not a man of too many faces, The mask I wear is one. (Sting) A very good approach on how to play Tibia WITH others rather than AGAINST!

No
________________

INFLICTING PAIN ON GRIEFERS PVP BLESSING LIMIT CONTAINERS CAP! §OLD ACCOUNTS§ Ancients power

In my opinion, no. They shouldn't be abusable and that is the point of the change!

Wild growth will still be able to be used to help block off lured creatures so the arguement that they will not be useful anymore is pointless. Only way they wouldn't be useful in that situation is if you actually have someone following you and deliberately destroying them and they'd be more likely to get attacked by all the lured stuff instead.
________________

(\_/) Im Beth, nice to meet you! (O.o) Take a loot at TibiaML! (> < ) We should ~Lick it up~ ~*~Want to move to Premia?~*~

Yes
________________

Solve the depot trashing problem

No
________________

"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something."-- Plato "Patience is the companion of wisdom."-- St. Augustine

I'm not an Optional-PvP player, but I do still have an opinion on the topic ... I'm a little bit annoyed at Optional-PvP advantages over Open/Hardcore PvP in PvE situations. If it removes an apparent 'abuse', I'm all for it.
________________

Regards, Morthanius

Originally posted by Craban on 15.09.2010 18:35:27:
> On the other hand, people now abuse wild growth to
> trap themselves in and thereby be safe from the boss
> outside. That is something unacceptable which is the
> reason for this.

Why don't you change it around, and give tough monsters the ability to destroy wild growth or even magic walls ? Problem solved. It seems rather silly to me that a mighty member of the ruthless seven is contained by something as silly as wildgrowth. Even mere demons shouldn't be that stupid.
________________

(_)W (¨)| /_\| Put an end to hacklinks. Now.

Originally posted by Satan on Dolera on 17.09.2010 20:48:51:
> Originally posted by Craban on 15.09.2010
> 18:35:27:
> > On the other hand, people now abuse wild growth to
> > trap themselves in and thereby be safe from the
> boss
> > outside. That is something unacceptable which is
> the
> > reason for this.
>
> Why don't you change it around, and give tough
> monsters the ability to destroy wild growth or even
> magic walls ? Problem solved. It seems rather silly
> to me that a mighty member of the ruthless seven is
> contained by something as silly as wildgrowth. Even
> mere demons shouldn't be that stupid.

This sounds like a good idea, would give some more teamplay and challenge, someone being responsible to cast magic walls / wild growth, etc...
________________

"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something."-- Plato "Patience is the companion of wisdom."-- St. Augustine

Meanwhile until luring is not fixed, there shouldnt be any changes. But if luring is changed satan's idea should be implemented.

So for this patch I vote no

I would say yes if u should make this mor realistic so with a sword or so to destroy it
________________

Regards, Umbra mckeening

No changes.

Definitely no.
________________

All Knights - We are Unbalanced? 19:55 Elatrist [123]: you always show class I think

No changes.
________________

Yours, Nyste.

Originally posted by Craban on 17.09.2010 12:26:37:
> So, let me ask this as a question with a short
> answer:
>
> Do you prefer wild growth to stay as it is now
> including the hunting abuse that I outlined or do you
> prefer it being treated just like mwalls meaning to
> remove that abuse? Please just give yes or no
> answers.

I do prefer it being treated just like mwalls. It's an abuse and has to be fixed no matter what people say.
________________

Moderator of fototibia.com The difference between you and me is that I don't need to hide myself behind a noob char.

They should be destroyed, also mas healing shouldn't heal normal creatures on open-pvp server only friends, summons~
________________

*Join TibiaML!* http://en.tibiaml.com/character/violent+moonlight/

Leave it as a walk through, since that are already destroyable.
________________

Sorry you can't handle the truth... but that's not my problem, it's yours.

NO CHANGES!

Do not help the guys who kill players buy luring monsters!

We have been suffering from them already! dont make the situation worse please.

on other hand, yes, some do abuse.
I am sure you have a clever team. Think another way to stop it. not making the runes useless.


Regs
________________

Live the dream! everything happens for a reason! Luck and fate are the same thing, it just depends on how you look at life!

I prefer point 2
________________

-------- Senior Tutor --------

The statement about trapping ourselves in corner does not hold during inquisition, because almost every mage uses energy/terra waves there... sometimes fireballs or icicles. I stand that it shouldn't be changed. Walking through (on it) is good. You need a druid to do it anyway, so it's not THAT popular.

Why is there a fucking vote about this?!

I mean it is MORE than obvious what the non-pvp people want.

Also it is MORE than obvious what the right answer is to this issue.

This is like asking paladins whether or not they want to be able to keep stairhopping 2 years ago


Should have simply implented it and announced it, my God.
________________

I've got something to say! I killed your baby today! It doesn't matter much to me, as long as it's fuckin' dead!

Originally posted by Linkirvana on 18.09.2010 11:46:04:
> Why is there a <censored due to someone's potty
> mouth> vote about this?!
>

What a horrible argument. Let's face it, when Cipsoft has done something unilaterally, people get upset adn say Cipsoft refuses to listen. Here we have Cipsoft giving people a chance to determine something via a simple yes or no poll.. and what do we have.. a lesser like you whining about it.

Let's be honest..

Pre-magic wall change... M-walls were indestructible. Players had no choice but to wait till they vanished. If certain situations this resulted in deaths as they were often used kill other players via luring.

After the change, M-walls because mostly useless for any purpose, as when they are used it's race to see who can remove them first. Only useable if.. (and it's a rarity on non-pvp) no one tags along your hunt/quest who is trying to lure kill you.

Wild growth however... was always destroyable. Simple machete and it's gone. It's usefulness was limited due to this fact, was used more to slow trouble makers down then anything else (hoping it takes them a few seconds to get a machete and use it.. or if really lucky hope they don't have one at all). Monsters can shoot you through them, so not even useful for blocking out monsters.

The change Craban is seeking is based on a few instances where people have used wild growth to hide in a corner to limit... but not prevent taking damage (since as I pointed out, monsters can shoot through them). The benefit of this idea is minor in most cases. But the change would make wild growths a totally useless rune.

So since wild growth at present, can be walked through (useless for blocking people), able to be shot through (limiting it's useful for protection purposes), and can be cut down already .... there is really no need to change it.
________________

Sorry you can't handle the truth... but that's not my problem, it's yours.

 

No

Hi

@ Ab Devil:

You can not destroy a wild growth with a machete!

Go log into your optional pvp world and try it.
________________

Solve the depot trashing problem

 

Against!

 

No!
________________

Fatality

Since Non pvp keeps putting their opinion about the upcoming update about pvp..i'll post my opinion about this topic.


Make it destroy like magic walls

 

Bad Idea!

Let it as it is!

/magic
________________

18:50 You see a wall mirror. You look fine today.

Originally posted by Ab Devil on 18.09.2010 16:05:52:
>
> What a horrible argument. Let's face it, when Cipsoft
> has done something unilaterally, people get upset adn
> say Cipsoft refuses to listen. Here we have Cipsoft
> giving people a chance to determine something via a
> simple yes or no poll.. and what do we have.. a
> lesser like you whining about it.

I didn't give an argument, I simply compared it to stairhopping being removed.

Obviously some decisions shouldn't be made by the players, ever heard of the term conflict of interest?

> Let's be honest..
>
> Pre-magic wall change... M-walls were indestructible.
> Players had no choice but to wait till they vanished.
> If certain situations this resulted in deaths as they
> were often used kill other players via luring.
>
> After the change, M-walls because mostly useless for
> any purpose, as when they are used it's race to see
> who can remove them first. Only useable if.. (and
> it's a rarity on non-pvp) no one tags along your
> hunt/quest who is trying to lure kill you.
>
> Wild growth however... was always destroyable. Simple
> machete and it's gone. It's usefulness was limited
> due to this fact, was used more to slow trouble
> makers down then anything else (hoping it takes them
> a few seconds to get a machete and use it.. or if
> really lucky hope they don't have one at all).
> Monsters can shoot you through them, so not even
> useful for blocking out monsters.

Wrong, ever since the rune was invented it was used mostly in PvM situations, pretty effectively, and it became even more useful when cipsoft made the change that players could walk through them.

> The change Craban is seeking is based on a few
> instances where people have used wild growth to hide
> in a corner to limit... but not prevent taking damage
> (since as I pointed out, monsters can shoot through
> them). The benefit of this idea is minor in most
> cases. But the change would make wild growths a
> totally useless rune.

I have seen it countless of times being abused like that, it would make it a lot easier to e.g. lure away monsters which are normally hard/impossible to lure away due to them running through every field rune.

It was also effectively used to e.g. hunt juggernauts, also this tactic is fairly popular at the draken elite/abo spawns.

> So since wild growth at present, can be walked
> through (useless for blocking people), able to be
> shot through (limiting it's useful for protection
> purposes), and can be cut down already .... there is
> really no need to change it.

I never said that the problem was tremendously huge, it's a small change - but nevertheless one which is OBVIOUSLY for the better, since the only thing that is being removed is the ability to abuse a rune and use it for purposes its not ment for.

I can't fucking believe I just explained myself when things were obvious to begin with
________________

I've got something to say! I killed your baby today! It doesn't matter much to me, as long as it's fuckin' dead!

What's all this ranting about, guys?

Ok, people are afraid that this change will make people suffer more PA actions in Optional pvp servers, hence, although I'd prefer to make them right like MWs, given that such 'abuse' wouldn't harm anybody (meaning that to kill one boss more or less doesn't harm in any way the Community), I suggest to keep them as they are (not walkable but cuttable), and let's see if Chayenne can change boss waves into UEs.


@ Linkirvana:

Vulgar language doesn't enance your arguments.


Aleppe
________________

INFLICTING PAIN ON GRIEFERS PVP BLESSING LIMIT CONTAINERS CAP! §OLD ACCOUNTS§ Ancients power

dont change wild growth just leave it as it was b4
________________

Originally posted by Aleppe on 18.09.2010 19:23:09:
> What's all this ranting about, guys?
>
> Ok, people are afraid that this change will make
> people suffer more PA actions in Optional pvp
> servers, hence, although I'd prefer to make them
> right like MWs, given that such 'abuse' wouldn't harm
> anybody (meaning that to kill one boss more or less
> doesn't harm in any way the Community), I suggest to
> keep them as they are (not walkable but cuttable),
> and let's see if Chayenne can change boss waves into
> UEs.

How often does it happen that you get lured on and the only way of escape is to wild growth yourself in?

Like I said, the only thing that this would change is that you can't use the runes in a way they are not ment to be used, why not do it?

> @ Linkirvana:
>
> Vulgar language doesn't enance your arguments.
>
>
> Aleppe

Thank you captain obvious, that doesn't change the fact that I sometimes see it fit to use vulgar language.

Why? Because I fucking like it, get over it. Stick to the point, we're not 12 year olds.
________________

I've got something to say! I killed your baby today! It doesn't matter much to me, as long as it's fuckin' dead!

I just had this idea..

CIP introduced "Tibia-AimBot-Hotkeys" so everybody that didn't have "AimBot" back in the days would have the same chance as the one who did. So they introduced "Hotkeys with ITEMS, Use on yourself/Cross/target"

Now when there is this anti-cheating program going on, I figured...Why the hell not taking away the "tibia-aimbot"?...

Tibia had more feeling to it when it had no hotkeys for runes.

I don't get it...Why changing magicwall runes/ WG runes now...After what..6-8 years?...

You are destroying the game..

NoN-PvP means None player versus player combat.
Using magic wall to kill somebody else in Non-pvp is just skills and this is illegal..
Introduce Gamemasters to the game again..Hire more GM's.

Jesus christ..I just get mad about you guys changing EVERYTHING tibia USED to be..

Originally posted by Linkirvana on 18.09.2010 21:10:37:

> How often does it happen that you get lured on and
> the only way of escape is to wild growth yourself in?

Wild growth'ing yourself in generally doesn't work. Creatures can shoot through them (and let's face it anything harder that would require you to even try, has area/distance attacks, meaning protection is at best minimal.


>
> Like I said, the only thing that this would change is
> that you can't use the runes in a way they are not
> ment to be used, why not do it?

This is where you are ignorant. It changes everything. How long does m-walls last now when used on pvp-optional worlds? They don't last.. they are instantly destroyed, to the point they are effectively useless in 99% of situations, as someone is already happy to ruin them.

Wild growth on the other hand, as pointed out, was ALWAYS destroyable, via a machete. Because they can be walked through and shot through few people bother to destroy them.. giving them a more usage then m-walls.

As pointed out, the change you are seemingly demanding, is to fix a minor issue that isn't even a real problem, since as pointed out, monsters can still shoot people hiding behind them. It may be a bit safer, but it's minor and in fact is no different then using field runes to protect yourself. It keeps things away, but you can still be attacked by monsters anyway.

I suspect your anger and demands are fueled more by a hatred of someone who plays a druid, then for any other reason. Your anger, and inappropriate language in many posts indicate that as well.



> > @ Linkirvana:
> >
> > Vulgar language doesn't enance your arguments.
> >
> >
> > Aleppe
>
> Thank you captain obvious, that doesn't change the
> fact that I sometimes see it fit to use vulgar
> language.
>
> Why? Because I fucking like it, get over it. Stick to
> the point, we're not 12 year olds.
________________

Sorry you can't handle the truth... but that's not my problem, it's yours.

Hi

Originally posted by Ab Devil on 19.09.2010 00:16:32:

> Wild growth on the other hand, as pointed out, was
> ALWAYS destroyable, via a machete. Because they can
> be walked through and shot through few people bother
> to destroy them.. giving them a more usage then
> m-walls.

No they are not destroyable with a machete...

Seems you dont want to understand it...
________________

Solve the depot trashing problem

Originally posted by Craban on 15.09.2010 16:59:31:
> Due to some abuse with the simply walking through
> wild growths on Optional, we have now changed it to
> behave exactly like magic walls. That means that also
> wild growths (rushwood) will be destroyed when you
> walk on it and it is not from a war enemy.
>
> Please give your vote to this
> question.



In all honesty if its being used to abuse game weakness of course people are gonna vote not to change it. imo dont even ask just change it so people cant do it
________________

-------- Senior Tutor --------

Originally posted by Craban on 15.09.2010 16:59:31:
> Due to some abuse with the simply walking through
> wild growths on Optional, we have now changed it to
> behave exactly like magic walls. That means that also
> wild growths (rushwood) will be destroyed when you
> walk on it and it is not from a war enemy.
>
> Please give your vote to this
> question.

Originally posted by Nightmare Knnight on 15.09.2010 19:21:15:
> If your saying its unacceptable to use wild growths
> to hide from bosses, why not change bosses instead
> making them able to break magic walls and wild
> growths like they do to items in the way.


I agree with him, why dont make bosses to break if the player try to abuse this.

Some players lure a monster over another and if he try to defend himself with a MW or a WG, the lurer easily break it and continue his bad action.

[edit]

Dont Break!
________________

Respect To Be Respected.

 

fix thing like sheep killers while trainin an many other probles like loot thief b4 worry bout any thinks else

Seriously, this should be changed, leveling this way is just... to easy!

another idea could be, swich functions.. like:

M wall: Can walk trough it and wont destroy it this way you can be safe of luring, but wont help you hunting because you can't atack trought it.

GW :Can be destroyed by walking in the same SQM.

All the people that is saying no, to this is because they like leveling easy, in my idea you wont sufer PA (luring) but you won't level as usual, you cheaters.
________________

Healthy or insane?

Originally posted by Ab Devil on 19.09.2010 00:16:32:
>
>
> Wild growth'ing yourself in generally doesn't work.
> Creatures can shoot through them (and let's face it
> anything harder that would require you to even try,
> has area/distance attacks, meaning protection is at
> best minimal.

Thanks for reinforcing my argument, that's exactly what I ment - it never happends and therefor there's no "legit" way of using wild growths to walk through them.

>
> This is where you are ignorant. It changes
> everything. How long does m-walls last now when used
> on pvp-optional worlds? They don't last.. they are
> instantly destroyed, to the point they are
> effectively useless in 99% of situations, as someone
> is already happy to ruin them.

It changes everything? How often does it happen people walk through say mwalls? Only at big bosses that attracts different groups of players, because what your genious mind seemed to have missed is when you hunt with friends, they don't go and do that shit.

How often are mwalls/wild growths necesarry at these bosses on non-pvp? NEVER

And yes, I actually DO know what I'm talking about, I've seen COUNTLESS of bosses being killed on non-pvp (I watch a lot of casts)

> Wild growth on the other hand, as pointed out, was
> ALWAYS destroyable, via a machete. Because they can
> be walked through and shot through few people bother
> to destroy them.. giving them a more usage then
> m-walls.

Well, what Magus said.

> As pointed out, the change you are seemingly
> demanding, is to fix a minor issue that isn't even a
> real problem, since as pointed out, monsters can
> still shoot people hiding behind them. It may be a
> bit safer, but it's minor and in fact is no different
> then using field runes to protect yourself. It keeps
> things away, but you can still be attacked by
> monsters anyway.

First off I'm not demanding shit, I don't play non-pvp so I really couldn't care less whether or not this gets implented - what I do like to do is argue with people who are clearly wrong.

You seem to clearly underestimate the melee attacks of most monsters, also again your genious mind seems to forget that when you attack a creature trapped by field runes will simply storm through the field rune to melee you, while this is obviously not the case when you ABUSE wild growths.

All in all the difference between abusing wild growths and using field runes is pretty big, considering wild growths will keep the monster away always, whereas field runes only do that until the creature receives damage.

Also If you had any sort of experience whatsoever you would've never started this argument, because as I just demonstrated you're clearly wrong in basicly everything you have to say about this subject

> I suspect your anger and demands are fueled more by a
> hatred of someone who plays a druid, then for any
> other reason. Your anger, and inappropriate language
> in many posts indicate that as well.

Yes you totally get me - I hate druids, that's the reason why I took this stan.... You're joking right?

My anger? This is how I always write my posts - ofcourse the tone differs per person I talk to, but when someone spouts bullshit like you do then yes, my tone does get very sarcastic. I hope you enjoyed it - I know I did.
________________

I've got something to say! I killed your baby today! It doesn't matter much to me, as long as it's fuckin' dead!

Kal says no change
________________

forums are useless.

I say change it to the same MW behaviour. It is unfair.

Originally posted by Magus Firefly on 19.09.2010 00:48:24:
> Hi
>
> No they are not destroyable with a machete...
>
> Seems you dont want to understand it...

Yes, they aren't.


Originally posted by Lady Saga Jaria on 19.09.2010 03:09:54:
> In all honesty if its being used to abuse game
> weakness of course people are gonna vote not to
> change it. imo dont even ask just change it so people
> cant do it

Signed. Thats what I've said.
________________

Moderator of fototibia.com The difference between you and me is that I don't need to hide myself behind a noob char.

My vote is for like they were before - cuttable, un-walkable.

If you're not prepared with a machete, then sorry about your luck.

It should dissapper when someone on Optional PvP walk on it! So it should be like magic wall, cuz right now if some hlvl druid from Optional PvP can trap some strong monster and kill it alone (like some hlvl druid soloed Massacre). The rushwood should dissapper when walking on it :=)
________________

K4r4biN

Terrible idea

I understand that these runes can be used for abuse but like I said some time ago when you changed them, make them removable with machete & heavy machete would be better.

But wouldn't be better to auto detect that specific abuse and others and punish automatically?

Good idea, I love it!

Originally posted by Craban on 15.09.2010 16:59:31:
EDIT: Due to the very split feedback, we have
> decided to not change wild growth on Optional for
> now. We will try and find a better solution. Until
> then, it will be left as it is now.

So you'll let people abuse because of 10 bug-abusers that posted here complaining?
________________

Moderator of fototibia.com The difference between you and me is that I don't need to hide myself behind a noob char.

Hi

Originally posted by Craban on 15.09.2010 16:59:31:
> Due to some abuse with the simply walking through
> wild growths on Optional, we have now changed it to
> behave exactly like magic walls. That means that also
> wild growths (rushwood) will be destroyed when you
> walk on it and it is not from a war enemy.
>
> Please give your vote to this
> question.
>
> EDIT: Due to the very split feedback, we have
> decided to not change wild growth on Optional for
> now. We will try and find a better solution. Until
> then, it will be left as it is now.

Very good.

In my personal opinion the main thing we really! need is a way to report such things. So clearly said a video function in game which can be used to prove such situations.

With such a feature I would for sure support changing the wild growth runes.


There are other abuses currently used ingame which have nothing to do with wild growth runes which also make such a report feature necessary, because people abuse ingame features to block other players.

I can say that I hunt with a druid/knight trio very often and we do use wild growth runes regularly at normal team hunts, but never used them in the way discribed here. And the druid is normally powergaming which means he wont waste 3 attack rounds for "useless" protection spells.
________________

Solve the depot trashing problem

non pvp guys always win on forum

its why tibia is worse each day

=]

Hi

Originally posted by Seva Aerion on 21.09.2010 04:18:51:
> non pvp guys always win on forum
>

Sure only the best win

> its why tibia is worse each day
>
> =]

Those who voted here partly come from optional pvp and vote for keeping it like it is, partly from optional pvp and want the proposed changes and partly pvp players vote who only want to get a decision to annoy the majority of optional pvp players like you do.
________________

Solve the depot trashing problem

Rediculous decision, I don't understand it 1 bit.

I made a lot of valid points against it, while I hardly saw anyone make a good point in favour of this decision.
________________

I've got something to say! I killed your baby today! It doesn't matter much to me, as long as it's fuckin' dead!

Hi

Originally posted by Linkirvana on 21.09.2010 09:43:53:
> Rediculous decision, I don't understand it 1 bit.
>
> I made a lot of valid points against it, while I
> hardly saw anyone make a good point in favour of this
> decision.

??

It was very easy to make valid points for both decisions.

The question is what is more important.

Keep everything like it is:
1. If you can destroy wild growth runes there will be by far more luring death (Boss hunts and normal hunts). Thats a fact.
2. Its not possible to destroy wild growth runes currently at optional pvp worlds. If you dont believe it, go try it with your machete...

Make wild growth like Magic walls:
1. People abuse the wild growth with creating a save spot and then walking into it, with up to no risk of dieing.

This is used by some players at boss hunts and normal hunts.
________________

Solve the depot trashing problem

No change, let the way it is now.
________________

~* In the end, it's not going to matter how many breaths you took, but how many moments took your breath away. *~