@ Ryonaka Beon:

if someone really doesnt want to be trap, killed etc etc... he can easily move to an optional pvp world and play tibia in peace all he wanted to, or just have the brains to not to get themselves into traps

There was even a third option: to post their feedbacks asking to add a new feature to make traps less effective. It appears that they totally owned you, not only your traps.


on Optional pvp worlds, where there SOO MUCH MORE POWER ABUSERS, BOTTER, BUG ABUSERS, GAME FEATURES ABUSERS

And they can't, out of the war system, harm each other via game design. Still, you keep insisting that n-pvp players ain't skilled.


@ Azriel:

I do not really get what's wrong in making traps in wars using war characters or trapping people by PKs. It's a part of the game and IMPORTANT feature in Open PvP servers.
I'd really appreciate if someone could explain this to me

I understand your concerns, and I'll show you that I've thought the same months ago in the Focus Group Discussion: we fought much more in Focus group than people here.

Originally posted by Aleppe on 16.07.2010 12:35:11:
> Middle solutions aren't solutions but failures:
> either do it as it has to be done or turn all servers
> into optional pvp ones. Non consensual fights mean
> non consensual fights and not fights to which
> somebody might decide to not take part, for Tibia's
> sake.
>
> One can't trap, can't do this,
> can't do that: are we talking about OPEN pvp
> servers or what?



Originally posted by Aleppe on 17.07.2010 08:45:24:
>

---

At the beginning of the battle the main
> activity is to screw with the enemy, and see if you
> can get the opposing side to break rank and seperate:
> noobchars are slow, hence try to move fast to leave
> them behind. The main frags of the battle won't come
> in this stage: no way to frag moving targets if you
> aren't facing pure pvp-noobs or out of supplies
> chars, given that to make them waste all their
> supplies you will have to waste yours too and that if
> you're a fair player to waste... hurts.
>
> Once the battle starts to break apart for good your
> job is to assist the knights in getting key
> traps on key opponents, not allowing noobchars to
> reach you before you're done. Use time rings and
> haste to get ahead of the person running through
> woods, use MW to slow them down then move yourself
> and block their path.
>
> If a square opens up around them, giving them a
> chance to destroy field and side step out of the
> trap, drop a MW and call for someone to get ready to
> step into the position. If they will run away, you'll
> have just wasted time and supplies. Nothing
> else.

---

> Now do a thing: put all your traps counter-measures
> in this context (which, to make it easy, doesn't
> consider skulls, unjusts, illegal autohealers,
> autoaimers & co which would turn it far worst) and
> tell me what you see. I see just pure
> non-sense: if one gets trapped HE HAS TO
> DIE. The only thing which can be discussed is the
> trapped player pvp death aftermath, nothing else.
>
> Show me that I'm mistaken.


=> to be continued
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Originally posted by Aleppe on 21.07.2010 07:25:31:
> Originally posted by Nymet on 20.07.2010
> 21:41:58:
> The question
> > with that feature is this, are you trying to stop
> > noob trap characters or are you trying to stop
> traps?
>
> It was supposed to be the 1st but it became clearly
> the second. This said, don't worry: it's supposed to
> work but it won't.


Originally posted by Aleppe on 22.07.2010 17:31:41:
> MS lv 200 (Hp 1145, Mp 5795 = 6940 mana shield)
>
> Any idea about how to kill him FAIRLY after the
> patch?
>
> => Blocking noobchars - 3rd part interference <=


Originally posted by Aleppe on 03.08.2010 08:19:44:
> Looking at how the whole discussion is developing,
> I'm leaving you with your visions in this board right
> here.


Then the Private Test Server started, and I've changed my mind, having seen that this feature doesn't nerf the pvp environment but, at contrary, brought much fun: to trap people and to organize good de is still possible, but requires pvp skills.

That's why I keep saying that you can't judge this feature looking at how one presents it to you, but you need to try it by yourself: if you'll have enough pvp skills you'll love it.

I can say it because I DID YOUR SAME MISTAKE BEFORE YOU!.


Aleppe
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Well, maybe you're right, I just didn't have an opportunity to test it with my own team. Would be really great if we could at least organize a battle with 2 teams using ventrilo/team speak, cuz battles with random people without proper communication make no sense at all and do not let us actually see what's gonna happen.
And the other thing I'm worried about is that cheaters may again find a way to get an advantage over normal players with this feature.

Anyway, thanks for showing me your point of view


Yours,
Azzy
________________

Proud Tutor since 27/05/07 to 27/05/10 and since 13/08/10 to ... 17:31 Exorz [206]: why gonna help him xd 17:31 Azriel [83]: Cuz I'm Azriel, haha

Side-note: I've just learnt (Thais battle) how to mark an enemy with a white skull using the swapping feature (no bug, just pvp skills ).
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I dont know if this has already been posted cuz i haven't ready the entire topic (too much people crying)

As I can see This feature has worked well, but there's a bug.

Condition:
If someone get trapped near a stair or something that can make a bunch of players in the same sqm.

Problem:

Let's say that everybody around the player is attacking the target, but a random player appear, the player can change position with him. BUT EVERYONE ELSE IS ATTACKING.

I mean, there are 5 players arround the target and he got trapped with nowhere to move, all of them are attacking the target so he cant move at all. One of those players that are trapping and attacking the target is at the same sqm that the stair(when people move up/down the stair). So he can change with those players.. But if u analyse the entire situation he's trapped, but because of a random player he can abuse a bug.


___
And another thing that i have notted(not exatally in this feature) buti dont know where to post lol.

When there's an item under a player u cant put it in your backpack.. better saying.. u cant pull this item out at all..

This is about to work this way to prevent people from pushing loot from here to there or just to make easier to push people? cus i dont think that it'll really work this way :P

I mean, there are 5 players arround the target and he got trapped with nowhere to move, all of them are attacking the target so he cant move at all.

Nope.
If the victim doesn't deal pvp damage to those 5 players he will be able to swap all 5: otherwise, the attackers won't be able to swap him.

Your example applies to another case: when the player previously damaged all 5 characters which are trapping him, he won't be able to swap with them. If another player joins the stack, in this case he will have the possibility to swap that last player into the stack.

That's not a bug.


Aleppe
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Fixes online.
________________

I'm not a man of too many faces, The mask I wear is one. (Sting) A very good approach on how to play Tibia WITH others rather than AGAINST!

MAKE THE POOL
________________

/Thaigon Made in Brasil.

Originally posted by Azriel on 14.09.2010 10:39:43:
> Well, I know this post isn't constructive, but I want
> to understand what are the reasons and the goals of
> swapping. I've never had problems with traps made my
> main/war mode chars. All I want is to prevent noob
> characters trapping people (specially in war mode),
> that's all. I do not really get what's wrong in
> making traps in wars using war characters or trapping
> people by PKs. It's a part of the game and IMPORTANT
> feature in Open PvP servers.
>
> I'd really appreciate if someone could explain this
> to me
>
>
> Yours,
> Azzy

Azzy,

Here is the thing, this is a pvp server with war mode feature. Every suggestion to prevent noob interference in wars was a suggestion that could be used to abuse innocent people. The swap feature was the only one that did not have all of those abuse potentials to it.

The second issue, is on the swap activation, how could it be activated just for war situations, without creating an abuse situation.

So actually, this swap feature is primarily for the war system, because it gives a war fighter the ability to swap out with all of the noob unskulled blockers that he can't attack. (I say can't attack because he does not want to take a skull and be bashed by the noobs not in the war mode!)

The side effect of this, is that the swap feature ALSO took care of the skull system trap that has been used to abuse people. So this had a second benefit that helps the neutral players.

In the focus group we brought up for phase 2 that we want to discuss how to allow those in a war to block their enemy. Because in a war traps are a valid strategy. So in the upcoming phase 2 discussion I am sure this will be a key topic.

Originally posted by Odyon on 14.09.2010 01:53:01:
> Originally posted by Fatley'kent on 14.09.2010
> 01:40:05:
> > Originally posted by Riptiman Serinthun on
> > 14.09.2010 00:41:59:
> > > I really don't like this idea.
> > >
> > > It will be impossible to trap a war enemy who
> > don't
> > > want to join war mode.
> > > It will be impossible to kill 300+ MS or 200+ EK
> > if
> > > he will be able to run out from the trap.
> > > It will be impossible to keep enemies away from
> > > gaining cash!
> > >
> > > 2 years ago, sunday, around 55000 people online,
> > 900
> > > on my world.
> > > Yesterday, 35000 people online, 250 on my world.
> > >
> > > That says all
> > >
> > > /Riptiman Serinthun.
> > Toyally Signed
> > I think that pvp is a very important part of the
> > tibian experience, If you get killed is not nice
> at
> > all specially if you are random killed (No
> reason).
> > But if you kill someone that deserves
> > it(thiefs,hackers,pks etc.)it is completly
> justified
> > to do it or if your guild is involved in a war.
> > Some people kill others for fun, others for
> personal
> > reasons, and others just for making justice.
> > Any of those are important reasons because lots of
> > players just play tibia for killing people, thats
> fun
> > for them.
> > The new feature of swapping position is completly
> > ruining the pvp experience, because trapping was
> one
> > of the main tools of killing people.
> > Im not a power abuser or a random pk, I just kill
> > people who deserves it.
> > Getting trap has never been that easy, you need
> > really experienced player or a non experienced one
> to
> > get real trapped (no way out).
> > This is why I think that this new feature is not
> good
> > or necessary.
> >
> > Yours.
> > Fatley.
>
> Very well said.

got to agree as well. a lot of nice updates on this update except for this one. listen to the community about this cip and don't do it!

Originally posted by Kewie on 14.09.2010 16:00:58:
> got to agree as well. a lot of nice updates on this
> update except for this one. listen to the community
> about this cip and don't do it!


Again: which Community? Cheaters one? Griefers one? Which Community? Tell me! Which Community? Where is that Community? Where are the posts? Where? Tell me!

Tell me where I can find a thread like Sanada's one for the 20 unjusts with k replies and views. Tell me for God's sake!
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Its quite simple really some players who mostly get pleasure from power abuseing others are complaining here as always they do because they dont trust their own ability to adapt to these new features.

I think its totally sad how some uber level server controling power guild guy's can fall to peices and mumble about community when all the time they were the same people who went out of their way to hurt the peacefull communitys for years and years making people quit and the game and killing the pvp open servers,
And all because as the occasional one is honest enough to post the only fun they can have is 'kill people' in other words to have their fun at the expence of somebody elses.

Now they talk about 'we' the community ? lol asif anyone is fooled.

@aleppe


I never said that ppl of N-pvp servers weren't skilled enough so don't put those words in my hands please, I just said that all those wyners crying all over because they died by pkrs or w/e, should go to a non-pvp server and stop crying... and lets see if they will make it better there... besides, it doesn't need to much brains to hurt someone Using a monster that's stronger than your target... take it by example, I've saw a video of Tomurka luring lots of monsters on a group of guys in formorgar mines (and we all now, it's not the first or the last time, he does that)... will this make a different for those victims? will this improve anything besides the quantity of people quitting tibia?
I have been on test server, I have test all this new features, and I found it useless and lame, really, my lvl in test server now is 114, I tested it, I used it, and tbh I got out of a trap with it but, as a PVPer (and not a very skilled one to tell you the truth) at my sight this is only targeting to force people use the USELESS war system... will I have the chance to take revenge of a pker (or a group of pkers) if his (their) lvl is higher than mine? they will just kill me again xD what about if the guy(s) is running out of my screen? what about if they're several? Not even the most skilled pvp player can do that, at least the guy is TRAPPED (kinda contradiction don't u think?)... And personally in my sittuation if I manage to kill someone who's lvl is higher than mine, will I have the chance not to be assesinated later by this guy? -No I don't think so- but that's my problem... I just said this switch thing and new skull is ruining pvp even more than it's already (especially for knights, who has the bigger concerns about it - for the record Im a mage)

And About ur last comment:

I'M HERE LIKE ALL THOSE GUYS WHO'S COMMENTS ARE ON THE 12 PAGES BELOW THIS ONE, I'M HERE, THE REST IS STILL TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHY THE HECK CIP WANTS TO IMPLEMENT SUCH AN STUPID ASPECT IN THE GAME WE ALL LOVE, TO DESTROY IT EVEN MORE anyways that thread u mention, was useless cause they did it anyways :X

and finally:
CIP JUST CAN'T DO THIS KIND OF STUFF, BECAUSE THEY'RE A GROUP OF PROGRAMMERS WHO IM SURE ALMOST ALL OF THEM ACTUALLY DON'T PLAY TIBIA AT DAILY BASES, SO THEY SHOUL'D BE DECIDING WITCH THINGS TO DO AND NOT TO DO... AND EVEN IF THEY PLAY, THEY'RE NOT THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY they need to focus in WHAT WE LIKE AND WHAT WE DOESN'T and tbh to u they have already taken away lot's of things we The community use to love :S



@Stonejaw the Brute: what about the ones who just like to war? or the ones like me, who doesn't have any other way to survive than a war? that's the purpose of pvp worlds I think... and tbh I don't think you can find someone who has been PA'd by me
________________

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Originally posted by Ryonaka Beon on 14.09.2010 17:20:21:
> @Stonejaw the Brute: what about the ones who just
> like to war? or the ones like me, who doesn't have
> any other way to survive than a war? that's the
> purpose of pvp worlds I think... and tbh I don't
> think you can find someone who has been PA'd by me

@ Ryonaka Beon
I would suggest that 'ones like you' ought to concider taking some of your own 'advice' but rather then telling everybody who is more peacefull then you to "move to non pvp" why not ask yourself if you would not be better suited to playing in a hardcore server ?

With all due respect its not for you to decide the 'purpose' of pvp open worlds, i would suggest that the purpose is not only 'war' but it is supposed to be fun and the truth is that fun has been ruined for many many people just because a few people who like yourself see no other joy in tibia then unfair fights aganst weaker and outnumbered opponents.

My advice to you is just try to rise up too this new challenge , adapt yourself .. your inability to adapt to change is nobody elses fault ok, least of all that of the people who have had to suffer because your idea of fun is limited to hurting other players.

sux, if you are traped was for two reasons: you play badly, or was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

and trap and if you can move trap, ends with the essence of the game.
move the player with the same rubbish down, ok ...
but you'll end up with everything that was good game

cip could create another rune to clear rubbish underneath the player (to come to push anti cheater)
desintegrate like, but that does not give pz locked when you use...

cip is spoiling your game every day!

is not a question of adapting the new rules, the question is one: to ruin the game or new rules useless and stupid.

Note if you play in open pvp, you're there to kill or die ...
if you do not want to trap, not to kill or die
OPTIONAL go play in PVP WORLD.
I agree with you Ryonaka Béon spoke very well.

Hi

Originally posted by Patifezinho on 14.09.2010 18:37:34:

>
> Note if you play in open pvp, you're there to kill or
> die ...

No thats clearly the definition of hardcore pvp worlds, not open pvp.

CIPSOFT clearly wrote that they will reduce the possible kills by game design. At the moment they do it with the 20 unjusts and the skull system.

When the fair fight rules and the pvp blessings come it might be possible to think about a reducement of the 20 unjusts. If I were in CIPSOFT team I would start 1 month with the new rules, then decrease the unjusts (lets say to 5) and see if the first 2 points are still enough to keep the biggest majority of the server playing. Discussion threads will clearly show what unjust value is ok for both groups of players.

In my opinion it will be the stage when both think its a little bad for them

> if you do not want to trap, not to kill or die
> OPTIONAL go play in PVP WORLD.
> I agree with you Ryonaka Béon spoke very well.

Noone wants to die, so this dieing part makes not much sense.

The main point is like Aleppe wrote many times: open pvp is about nonconsensual fights! So if you dont love to be attacked if you are not in the "mood" to do a pvp fight you are indeed at the wrong server. No need at all that both parties agree about a fight in open pvp.

But for sure a need to balance all costs and losses, so that the more peaceful players and the pvp heros can enjoy the game, without any group having to leave (either because of bordom, or because of being killed too often/ending bankrupt...)

Additionally we do need many new high and very high level quests and hunting grounds, permanent PvM challenges... to avoid that experienced player feel bored around level 120-150.
________________

Solve the depot trashing problem

Originally posted by Krun Levind on 12.09.2010 19:38:36:
> This is possibly the worst thing I have ever seen.
>
> Couldn't you just stop trying to make pvp servers
> more like non pvp?


Signed.
________________

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@Patifezinho
I just love these new features , what are you crying about exactly ?

Sorry but I disagree with your statements because any change to the game is most surely only a matter of adapting to it.
There are those who adjust and those who fail to adjust , if some player fails to adjust it is simply because they cope badly with new challenges.
Just wait and see ok players will adapt to the new features as always, sure some will cry and complain as always but others will just get on with it and enjoy the game.

I know i will enjoy developing new pvp skills its an awesome oppertunity but in order to accept it one only needs a healthy mindset that is not 'trapped' in the past.. L0L .

Why this isnt a good idea.

First: Trap is a differencial from tibia, its rare you see this in other games, and you see isnt good enough to compare with tibia traps, you cant walk in sqm where are a player or creature, this is the magic of the pvp in tibia if you remove that the pvp will be boring, dont will be related to skills anymore, who got more level and number of people will be the winner team in all battles, it wont be a smart game anymore please realease that, you are adding a non pvp thing, in pvp worlds, magic walls will be useless, you trap a player he just will swap places with you and you team.

Second: The main objective of knights in pvp is to be the shield of the team, and its magic, no one can touch the "weakers" ones because its impossible walk through the knights without kill them, now them will be useless, if u took skull you proably will die, because will be no "traps" anymore you only defense will be speed. The principal way to abuse is: you ask to friend attack you, you trap yourself with magicwalls, and you can swap position with anyplayer you want.

Third: HL knights will be imortal, during battles, you need a certain time to kill, will be impossible, if you trap him and remove vision of the healers, he will just swap places with enemies, till found a healer, its another way to broke pvp, make knights imortal during the battles.


Swap position its a TERRIBLE idea, will end with pvp, please dont do that.
________________

I want perfection.

Silly idea and it will probably lead to some unforseen game weakness abuse again....

Every update there is a new feature but it never works the way it should.

Our whole vent (60 people) stands behind this and is looking forward to use it in battle against the currently PAing guild. Yes, it requires quick thinking and skill and that's exactly what we love. No more battles decided solely on the amounht of noobchars one side can bring

Aleppe most of the people will have the first reaction of seeing bad things of this change, so do I.

I agree a lot with Seymour Dria and his 3 points, those are the ones that I think too, and in the 3rd point not only knights also HL paladins, i saw it by my own eyes, a 300 rp inmortal in thais, just couple of sios ( he got away when he decide it).

So that's why you see many posts complaining and all you do is saying "test it" go "test the swap feature" but many people don't have an available team or the level or a knight or paladin to try it, so please i dont know if you, or in a good thread, EXPLAIN how does it work!! i mean not the "pvp trick" but how it is supposed to work, lets call them "the rules of swapping" idk.
________________

Geke Genkai

@ Xero Kaos:

You're welcome.

The 1st thing that one needs to note when talking about swaps, is that they come from a Focus Group discussion meant to find solutions to noobchars / 3rd part interferences in both skull/war system combats.

We have talked about different solutions: some couldn't be taken into consideration due to technical problems, others due to their possible abuses.

At the end of the 1st discussion, the main proposal to solve noobchars/3rd part interferences weren't swaps, but a feature called "knockout skull". Unfortunately it hasn't received the agreement of CIP's Gods due to its complicated nature, hence we were asked to try new ways.

Then Swaps appeared, and my 1st thought was: we are meant to find solutions just for noobchars/3rd part interferences, not to nerf all traps, given that a high level can't be fragged without trapping it, and I've fought against this feature until the private TS was released.

I've spent the first day of the private test alone multiclienteling several characters (allowed on TS), given that I had ranted vs best part of Focus Group for a long time (and not just about swaps): that was my luck. I could test this feature not being influenced by anybody thoughts / behaviours, like playing chess alone: my strategy vs my own strategy, nothing else.

These are some my notes of that day:

• I use swaps more for aggressive purposes than for defensive ones (more with knight/pally)
• I use mws mostly to trap myself than to trap the enemy
• I use swaps to defend with mages and to attack with ek/rp
• Must have some xxxxxxx (I won't spoil it here) in EK/RP bp. Always!!
• Potion = swap delay
• There is a problem for chars not being able to use MW or to summon: just leave a sqm near the victim in a narrow passage PPEVPP (player, player, empty, victim, player, player)
• Stairs do not allow players to swap: just block somebody there with the team splitted up and downstairs and he's done. Do not enter buildings nor hunting grounds with stairs while hunted!
• Ladders, pitfalls and holes work differently: downstairs one can swap. One-way holes are deadly!
• If one fights back he's done: do not use soulfire/fields and attack just few targets in the same minute (2-3 max)
• I can't swap if a player is xxxxxxxxxxx (I won't spoil it here)
• I can change a HL stack with a noobchars one using swaps
• Some NPCs can be used to trap people, eg thais east gate
• xxxxxxxxxxx (I won't spoil it here) are traps! Do not use them while hunted!
• Using any field below the char allows you to swap, and it allows you to swap until the condition is gone
• Swapping can be used to mark the enemy with a white skull (still possible even with last patch, even if harder)
• While trapped do not swap diagonal
• If I swap with a char he can't swap back if not with a delay: narrow passages = death

During the next days I've found even more things about swaps, but I think that what I've written here is enough to put you on the right way.


Aleppe
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@ Xero Kaos
if the 300 rp 'got away' he is not immortal because immortal would meen he did not even need to try and escape from you .. In my opinion if your opponent runs away then you have won that battle.

@ Aleppe
I have a question for you , is it possable to swap out if the team of noob characters surrounding you has items under them eg empty flasks / coins to prevent them being pushed aside?

Also can you please explain the reason you made the point " If trapped dont swap diagonal " .. why?

Is it possable to swap out if the team of noob characters surrounding you has items under them eg empty flasks / coins to prevent them being pushed aside?

Those items do not do any difference: it doesn't matter if they have something below them. If they can be swapped they will be swapped in any case. Remember that if those chars are just blocking you without dealing any pvp damage, you've still the option to use a field (I prefer poison ones for obvious reasons) to activate swaps.

Nevertheless, there are particular situations in which those items below a trapping char can do the difference, but that's somthing you'll have to find by yourself


Aleppe
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Ok thanks Aleppe , i edited my post and added another question just around the same time as you posted your reply so perhaps you did not see it .. I am wondering why you made the point about 'diagional' swapping not being a good idea if trapped , can i ask you to explain this please?

I am wondering why you made the point about 'diagional' swapping not being a good idea if trapped


The general rule is, if possible, never swap the character that your enemy thinks you'll swap and limit as much as possible any eventual delay: it could lead you to be marked by a white skull.

123
4V5
678

V = victim
numbers = trappers

If you swap 1-3-6-8 you may be affected (depending on your hardware, net, lags and your pvp skills) by several delays: diagonal movement + swapping + eventual potion, hence it will be easier for your enemies to use a trick to make you white skulled ( I did it 3 times today in Thais with people saying: wtf???? Why I'm skulled? I think that they haven't understood it yet )


Aleppe
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The swaps should be available after a longer period of time than 2 seconds. Trapping is one of the main "pvp" features of this game since no-item-hotkey pvp was removed.
In my opinion, this is taking away the experience of trapping as it does take skill to trap someone in a battle and is one of the only pvp unique features left, swapping should take more than 2 seconds, maybe also take some soul points. Let's say 3-5 seconds each swap and 3-10 soul points.
The test server isn't the best test scenario since everyone is fighting for themselves, and if one person gets a skull it's all on him to survive unless he has a team which not many of the testers had one. In a real battle people get trapped from time to time, it's avoided sometimes since it's a real battle and everyone is anxious and careful not to die or kill the enemy.
I hope you think about it, in my thought it's a great idea.

-DR

is this going to affect hardcore pvp ?

idk how this affects skull servers as i never played them

but this will completely ruin dolera / inferna and keep the current team of power in power forever.

it's quite a silly prospect. allowing for no more defenses etc. on hardcore pvp the enemy teams r so outnumbered. the smaller team of each has only the option to go defense sometimes. now what r they to do?

stay oppressed because there knight is now useless in defense

i vote NO on this feature guys. horrible addition to pvp. does nothing good for anyone. except allows a 150+ knight to be unkillable

Originally posted by Imortal Outlaw on 16.09.2010 02:02:31:
> is this going to affect hardcore pvp ?
>
> idk how this affects skull servers as i never played
> them
>
> but this will completely ruin dolera / inferna and
> keep the current team of power in power forever.
>
> it's quite a silly prospect. allowing for no more
> defenses etc. on hardcore pvp the enemy teams r so
> outnumbered. the smaller team of each has only the
> option to go defense sometimes. now what r they to
> do?
>
> stay oppressed because there knight is now useless in
> defense
>
> i vote NO on this feature guys. horrible addition to
> pvp. does nothing good for anyone. except allows a
> 150+ knight to be unkillable


completely agreed, do not implement this into hardcord pvp servers as it would ruin them completely.
________________

19:43 Soul Generator [59]: GM your awesome XP 19:43 GM Exilya Inferna [2]: you too

This was one of the dumbest things i've EVER heard
________________

I'll take you all on

It's all balderdash. Lame things keep being put/brought up into the game and pvp gets worse all the time. Improve the actual game play and the real players don't have to suffer through a good game that descends in population and role-playing every year. Majority of players just want to do war and such. Bring something good to the tibia community instead of taking the community away.

For the swapping of positions, its lame and there are many ways for people to abuse and get around it.



---------
Mystic'Fury
________________

---The Athlete--- [2002-2010] My tibia lifetime...so far.

I think the pvp system should remain as it currently stands, because if not players who kill someone or even cause a type of hunting among the players themselves would escape and be benefited very easy.

So I vote No.

Please do not continue to ruin the pvp aspect of this game.

 

It will ruin the game with pvp again ...
think: you suffer a pk, or want to kill a pk, and you need to trap to kill him, as doing this?

Please do not implent these changes to pvp enfo, it will ruin the gameplay totally when fighting a war. We have it good and do not want any changes.
________________

Keep on dancing like a fool Watch me when I lose my cool We'll take it back to the riot race I'd love to break your face

This shouldn't be implemented in any server.. if the trapped person has a brain hes virtually unkillable espescially knights.

Please don't implement this on pvp hardcore servers!

In open pvp servers this is needed because people go with low level chars and trap, knowing that the enemies are scared to get red skull.

But in pvp enforced this is not needed to be implemented, once people are not scared to get red skull and it is one of the best things in the pvp enforced, people have to be smart to fight.

please do not ruin pvp hardcore servers implementing this

Do not implement this on pvp hardcore servers!

Thank you

Originally posted by Nalumor on 16.09.2010 03:36:14:
> This shouldn't be implemented in any server.. if the
> trapped person has a brain hes virtually unkillable
> espescially knights.
Agreed, its rediculous, its almost impossible to kill anyone higher level because they just swap out and run

We should never forget that the best thing on Tibia is that one character have it's sqm and if the screen is crowded, nobody will walk.
That's all about the traps on pvp hardcore servers, servers made for pking.

please DO NOT implement this on pvp hardcore servers!
It would ruin the pvp skills and level 130+ knights would become unkillable.

People fight with their teams, trap with mwalls, trap using their keyboards walking until they reach and surround their enemies with their pvp skills.

This update would seriously RUIN the pvp.

please don't implement it on pvp hardcores!

PLEASE DO NOT IMPLEMENT THIS ON HARDCORE-PVP SERVERS!!
________________

20:42 Vicblood [35]: ur better then chuck norris and jesus put together 20:42 Vicblood [35]: if chuck norris and jesus had a baby u would be born

It was enough bringing normal blessings to pvp hardcore, we dont need another pvp blessing. Also the push thingy is ridicolous, if a war starts again on dolera a 230 ek would be unkillable, period, so please do not add this on hardcore pvp!
________________

Yep.

Do Not Implent This on hardcore PvP

thank you

please do not implement on pvp-enforced servers the swap-out. it is a useless feature considering that dolera/inferna defenses cnanot be made with a high lvl knight blocking a narrow passage due to the fact we can kill the knight, and that if we get trapped by low levels we can simply kill them in order to run away (if we dont manage to kill them because they are too high lvl than i guess you diserve to die ahah)


...... PLEASE, PLEASE listen to us this time...

we dont want the dynamics of our server's battles to take another big change (just like rune delay being changed, exp not being given after killing other players).

i know our pvp-e community is small (maybe a 1000 active players), but there is no need to treat us like we arent worth shit (thats what it seems to me with the past changes you guys made to our server, without listening on wether the players wanted or not that change), but do not make it smaller/worst than it actually is

Originally posted by Guardakan on 16.09.2010 04:32:47:
> please do not implement on pvp-enforced servers the
> swap-out. it is a useless feature considering that
> dolera/inferna defenses cnanot be made with a high
> lvl knight blocking a narrow passage due to the fact
> we can kill the knight, and that if we get
> trapped by low levels we can simply kill them in
> order to run away (if we dont manage to kill them
> because they are too high lvl than i guess you
> diserve to die ahah)
>
>
> ...... PLEASE, PLEASE listen to us this
> time...
>
> we dont want the dynamics of our server's battles to
> take another big change (just like rune delay being
> changed, exp not being given after killing other
> players).
>
> i know our pvp-e community is small (maybe a
> 1000 active players), but there is no need to treat
> us like we arent worth shit (thats what it seems to
> me with the past changes you guys made to our server,
> without listening on wether the players wanted or not
> that change), but do not make it smaller/gayer
> than it actually is

could not be said better

do not apply this change on our server please.

This will make "sneaks" more or less useless, means an underpowered
guild will have no chance to win at any way...
________________

*Join TibiaML!* http://en.tibiaml.com/character/violent+moonlight/

really usefull and works fine on pvp server, but useless and breaking the game play on hardcore pvp in my opinion (signed an old pvp-e player that moved to a pvp server)

Craban, you may not know about Dolera, but the one's posting in this thread are from both the winning and losing side of the war, and we both say no to these changes on our server.



Sincerly,


Dolera
________________

Dear World, I have the internet and a keyboard so you have to listen to me

 

I beg of you, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE do not implement this on hardcore PvP. PvP is defined solely by the ability to trap enemies, and the ability to avoid becoming trapped . There are NO upsides to swappy time and I promise you will never hear the end of it. I have enough trouble convincing some of my own team members to renew premium and help us in war. Several of them have assured me that this would be the final nail in the coffin.
________________

- Your friendly neighborhood Sharp Dressed Man Encourage Hardcore PvP! Say NO to Swappy Time!

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!!!

DO NOT IMPLEMENT THIS ON PVP-E \ HARDCORE PVP SERVERS!!

It'll ruin whats left of Hardcore pvp !

 i vote no on swappy time!

leave dolera out of this!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

The whole idea of being able to swap with characters is an awful idea because this could be abused to get nights killed, and also being able to block characters on hardcore pvp worlds, and on optional pvp worlds is part of the game.

DO NOT PUT THIS ON HARDCORE SERVERS

Cip if you do this i dont know what i'll do, probably quit tibia in general, you ruined all the PVP servers dont ruin the hardcore, its called hardcore for a reason, I WAS IN VENORE ON TEST SERVER AND MY FRIEND A 83 ED WAS SIOING ME AND I WAS UHPING MY ARS OFF AND LET ME TELL YOU NO WAY IN HELL THEY WERE GOING TO KILL ME, Why you ask? BECAUSE YOU CANT TRAP PEOPLE what the hell is the point of PVP then?


IS THIS TIBIA AT ITS END?
________________

SNAKETOWERHASTHEVERYBIGPOWER

 

DEFINITELY NOT SIGNED!
________________

Give us back what we want!

no to this swapping thing on dolera.... simply ruins hardcore pvp.



-Jesse

No to swappy time.. I know plenty of people who will not renew premiums if this goes through on hardcore pvp servers. You matter as well delete Inferna and Dolera if this goes through for us.
________________

I'd rather be carried by 6 than judged by 12... RIDE OR DIE!

 

LEAVE HARDCORE SERVERS ALONE. U JUST MAKE THEM WORSE AND WORSE EVERYTIME SO STOP. IF U WANNA CHANGE SOMETHING DO IT IN OPTIONAL/OPEN PVP.
PLEASE CIPSOFT LEAVE US ALONE. WE DONT LIKE CHANGE....

p.s.u get traped its ur own fault learn to play.
Might as well make it so u can switch spot with other chars at depo boxes to

I will also be one of these people that will not renew premmy time if this is implamented

NOT SIGNED
For A Better Tibia

 

Caraban you have to listen, the player cuz we know how we wanna play. we are diferent of other world so clipsoft has to change.clipsoft have to change what the player wants to change, we give you opinions and should be implemented. Hardcore pvp players, we made many complaints about the experience for killing a player of higher level and you would not listen. tibia players will continue to decline if this situation continues in this way, you listen to the player.



FROM DOLERA.
PVP ENFORCED.

Dolera 118
Inferna 61

and still, they come here saying that things should stay like they are. Bunch of botters and griefers wannabe.
________________

Once engaged I fight to death. Your death.

DO NOT implement this on hardcore PvP servers

Removing the exp gain from player kills was a horrible idea, now this?

Not signed.

Originally posted by Dusty Starlight on 16.09.2010 07:31:56:
> Dolera 118
> Inferna 61
>
> and still, they come here saying that things should
> stay like they are. Bunch of botters and griefers
> wannabe.

x2
________________

INFLICTING PAIN ON GRIEFERS PVP BLESSING LIMIT CONTAINERS CAP! §OLD ACCOUNTS§ Ancients power

We Do not need this or want this on dolera please listen thank you.

Whats the point of hardcore servers when you die you lose nothing.Gain NOTHING do not put this stuff on pvp-enf thank you!
________________

Ex cinis cineris ut cinis cineris, nos orior oriri ortus iterum.

Dolera doesnt need, or want this.

Please stop making hardcore pvp, less and less ahrdcore and hard.

Its bad enough with the exp being taken away for pvp, DONT IMPLEMENT THIS ON DOLERA/INFERNA PLEASE!


HOW WILL WARS BE WON?SNEAK ATTACKS?

Would be nice for me to be unkillable, but naah i dont see any fun in that. So i say no to this update on hardcore pvp

I wont be standing in front of Almighty Danne in battles anymore haha xD, hell problaby rush into me and swap my place and make them othes behind him pump til my body hit the floor and then he just swaps back! aaaaah yea, he will be so unkillable

No... i dont agree its going to ruin pvp..


~Not signed.

Not signed i dont agree with this update its going to ruin the rest of this game...


~NOT SIGNED

~NOT SIGNED

~NOT SIGNED

~NOT SIGNED

~NOT SIGNED

~NOT SIGNED

~NOT SIGNED

~NOT SIGNED

~NOT SIGNED

~NOT SIGNED

~NOT SIGNED

~NOT SIGNED

~NOT SIGNED

~NOT SIGNED

~NOT SIGNED

~NOT SIGNED

~NOT SIGNED

~NOT SIGNED

~NOT SIGNED

~NOT SIGNED

~NOT SIGNED

~NOT SIGNED

~NOT SIGNED
________________

L.A.W.L

PLEASE DO NOT IMPLEMENT THIS ON HARDCORE-PVP SERVERS.
________________

Encourage Hardcore PvP! Reward PVP

 Please don't implement

Please do not implement this on hardcore PVP servers, as it will ruin a large PVP aspect of our gameplay. Please do not implement for Dolera and Inferna. A lot of players there do not want this so please again.

Originally posted by Oreliuss on 16.09.2010 08:35:57:
> Please do not implement this on hardcore PVP servers,
> as it will ruin a large PVP aspect of our gameplay.
> Please do not implement for Dolera and Inferna. A
> lot of players there do not want this so please
> again.

All you guys can say is "it will ruin pvp"

Is that Doleran for "plx no our bot might not be as effective"?

Just saying you disagree is worth jackshit, 0, nada, NOTHING if you don't back it up with atleast some sort of rational argument.
________________

I've got something to say! I killed your baby today! It doesn't matter much to me, as long as it's fuckin' dead!

No, no, Linkirvana!
They obtained something! I've just remembered what I had to post about hardcore pvp servers in pvp blessing / fair fight rules threads!

Thx guys


Aleppe
________________

INFLICTING PAIN ON GRIEFERS PVP BLESSING LIMIT CONTAINERS CAP! §OLD ACCOUNTS§ Ancients power

Please do not implement this on hardcore PVP servers

please do not put in pvp-e.

ty

i just hope you guys (cip) realise that the 20 pages of signatures against the implementation of this swap-out signature on PVP-e represent the WHOLE POPULATION of the pvp-enforced servers... NOBODY ON IT WANT THAT.


hope you listen to us... this time for once...

Originally posted by Raspoutine on 16.09.2010 10:15:04:
> i just hope you guys (cip) realise that the 20 pages
> of signatures against the implementation of this
> swap-out signature on PVP-e represent the WHOLE
> POPULATION of the pvp-enforced servers... NOBODY ON
> IT WANT THAT.
>
>
> hope you listen to us... this time for once...


Mind to tell me just one reason to listen to players complaints given that Hardcore pvp servers are dead servers and that who's complaining here are right those who want to keep things like they are now?


Aleppe
________________

INFLICTING PAIN ON GRIEFERS PVP BLESSING LIMIT CONTAINERS CAP! §OLD ACCOUNTS§ Ancients power

Originally posted by Sharp Dressed Man on 16.09.2010 06:10:47:
> I beg of you, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE do not implement
> this on hardcore PvP. PvP is defined solely by
> the ability to trap enemies, and the ability to avoid
> becoming trapped . There are NO upsides to swappy
> time and I promise you will never hear the end of it.
> I have enough trouble convincing some of my own team
> members to renew premium and help us in war. Several
> of them have assured me that this would be the final
> nail in the coffin.


nicely said my brother :*

i miss dolera.

former world : dolera

and i can tell one thing... iw ouldnt ever try to play dolera again if that was implemented ahah

doesnt sound like a fun update....... lol


not signed


it is a useless feature what will change the dynamics of all pvp-e wars/battles ... and not in a good/happy way.

Originally posted by Aleppe on 16.09.2010 10:24:10:
> Originally posted by Raspoutine on 16.09.2010
> 10:15:04:
> > i just hope you guys (cip) realise that the 20
> pages
> > of signatures against the implementation of this
> > swap-out signature on PVP-e represent the WHOLE
> > POPULATION of the pvp-enforced servers... NOBODY
> ON
> > IT WANT THAT.
> >
> >
> > hope you listen to us... this time for once...
>
>
> Mind to tell me just one reason to listen to players
> complaints given that Hardcore pvp servers are dead
> servers and that who's complaining here are right
> those who want to keep things like they are now?
>
>
> Aleppe


PVP-E ARE NOT DEAD SERVERS LOL.

the only reason pvp-e servers have only ~200 ppl online at all time is not because of the pvp aspect... ppl playing it like the pvp. its only that ppl do not see the motivation/courage to go on a pvp-e and try to actually lvl without contacts on the server. they just see this like impossible, they dont even try. and for the ones who try, they just give up after 2 or 3 deaths.... they want things too easy..... hardcore pvp..... thats why not too many players play it... its hard, to hard for them

come play on our server before to go even say a word about it please.

-not signed update. this is not necessary on dolera and will just advantage high lvls who could escape any trap and run open field (ank desert for example) without giving any chance to lower lvls to kill him.

i play optional pvp but i say is no need in hardcore for this. no need be genius to see.

Originally posted by Aleppe on 16.09.2010 07:48:09:
> Originally posted by Dusty Starlight on 16.09.2010
> 07:31:56:
> > Dolera 118
> > Inferna 61
> >
> > and still, they come here saying that things
> should
> > stay like they are. Bunch of botters and griefers
> > wannabe.
>
> x2


the reason we dont have alot of players is the opposite of what you just said it is... botters get killed alot on dolera, which reduces the ammount of cheaters and therefore only players that actually do play are online at all moments... and not afk characters of cheaters like its the case on pvp servers, where when you go to a spawn there's a lvl 200 ek that doesnt even answer you for the whole day

(i do not support cheating in any form.)

//got deleted on my main for not logging in for 2 years LOL but if i ever played again it would definitely not be with such a bad feature
________________

signed, hullong's post character :*

Keep it short guys: do you agree to add repeated deaths reductions for the Twist of fate and fair fight rules in hardcore servers?

If yes, I'll join my voice to yours about swaps.
If not, feel free to get lost.


Aleppe
________________

INFLICTING PAIN ON GRIEFERS PVP BLESSING LIMIT CONTAINERS CAP! §OLD ACCOUNTS§ Ancients power

Originally posted by Aleppe on 16.09.2010 10:24:10:
> Originally posted by Raspoutine on 16.09.2010
> 10:15:04:
> > i just hope you guys (cip) realise that the 20
> pages
> > of signatures against the implementation of this
> > swap-out signature on PVP-e represent the WHOLE
> > POPULATION of the pvp-enforced servers... NOBODY
> ON
> > IT WANT THAT.
> >
> >
> > hope you listen to us... this time for once...
>
>
> Mind to tell me just one reason to listen to players
> complaints given that Hardcore pvp servers are dead
> servers and that who's complaining here are right
> those who want to keep things like they are now?
>
>
> Aleppe

i dont see how a swap-out, that will affect gameplay, pvp in close fights (city battles) will make more players play hardcore pvp. lol...



or maybe yes, i see how now :::::

all pvp-e players quit and new players can play hardcore pvp. this is how right???

-not signed




on a side note ::: the swap-out does not do what it's meant to do. you are supposed to be able to escape from being traped by low lvls (lvl 200s traped by lvl 8s free accounts trapping him for their lvl 150s friends to come kill the traped lvl 200). lvl 8s will never attack the guy they trap, and therefore you do not fix the problem in any matter. if you want your swap out to be effective, you must be able to swap out at any moment, regardless of if you are being attacked or not, and regardless of if you are fully traped or not.

right now the way its made only leads to one thing :::

lets say player A is a power abuser lvl 300 that alot of friends, lvl 80s (group of players B), want to kill for their own personal justice.

player A gets traped by group B, player A swaps out with one of the guys that trapped him and run in ank desert... group B can never catch player A and in the matter of a few minutes all the lvl 300's friends of player A are killing group B, who was fighting for justice.

OR

a player of group B gets traped by lvl 8's, friends of player A. the lvl 8's do not attack player B because he could swap out. player B stands there and wait... just like without any swap out. player A arrives with all his friends and kill player B. swap out did not save player B.

Originally posted by Aleppe on 16.09.2010 10:45:52:
> Keep it short guys: do you agree to add repeated
> deaths reductions for the Twist of fate and fair
> fight rules in hardcore servers?
>
> If yes, I'll join my voice to yours about swaps.
> If not, feel free to get lost.
>
>
> Aleppe


every1 agrees with the twist of fate and reduction of death penalties, this will make more players be able to play and eventually get to somewhere on dolera without willing to quit after 2 deaths their first day.

but i do not see in any way how swap out will help growing dolera population. it just messes up the gameplay and has no interest for us (in a way it is useless, unnecessary.)

we can just kill whoever traps us. if low levels trap me i either kill them and get away or wait till i die.

if high levels trap me than i die. this is part of what is called "PVP", which is the skills at the game. trap people and not get trapped, thats what tibia is and thats how we love it.

PS: craban, its not like only half of the pvp-e population wanted not to have this feature. both sides of both servers agree that this is unnecessary and will hurt the gameplay in a negative way, making it too easy to escape traps and only advantaging high levels (since we cannot trap nobody, its whoever runs the fastest survives/kill, since he can just outrun whoever wants to kill him and catch anybody he wants to kill)

Originally posted by Aleppe on 16.09.2010 09:09:49:
> No, no, Linkirvana!
> They obtained something! I've just remembered what I
> had to post about hardcore pvp servers in pvp
> blessing / fair fight rules threads!
>
> Thx guys
>
>
> Aleppe

what's that lol, you're trying to sabotage pvp-e gameplay or what??? just be against pvp-e players' opinions anywhat it is??? lol.

I've already told you to keep it short: yes or no to further repeated pvp deaths protections for hardcore servers?


Aleppe
________________

INFLICTING PAIN ON GRIEFERS PVP BLESSING LIMIT CONTAINERS CAP! §OLD ACCOUNTS§ Ancients power

Originally posted by Aleppe on 16.09.2010 10:53:04:
> I've already told you to keep it short: yes or no to
> further repeated pvp deaths protections for
> hardcore servers?
>
>
> Aleppe

lol. personnaly i agree with deaths protection if you mean it in a way we lose less when we die.

all im saying is: i think the fair fight rules will be very good for new players on dolera. they just get killed alot by some high levels who only like to kill anywho is in their way without any motive, and with this rule they will barely lose anything... a few minutes of lvling in thais sewers that is.

Guardakan, your attitude is the one I like most, and I've no doubt saying that I'd would like to have you in the Focus Group discussion.

The point is : do ut des (give to be given)

This is how the Focus Group worked and still works:

Don't you want swaps in Hardcore?
There must be a Counterweight


Aleppe
________________

INFLICTING PAIN ON GRIEFERS PVP BLESSING LIMIT CONTAINERS CAP! §OLD ACCOUNTS§ Ancients power

Originally posted by Aleppe on 16.09.2010 11:03:40:
> Guardakan, your attitude is the one I like most, and
> I've no doubt saying that I'd would like to have you
> in the Focus Group discussion.
>
> The point is : do ut des (give to be given)
>
> This is how the Focus Group worked and still works:
>
> Don't you want swaps in Hardcore?
> There must be a Counterweight
>
>
> Aleppe

when i talk about it ingame to my war enemies (most of em are very friendly u know i have nice talk with alot of em very often), or in ventrilo with my allies, i did not meet ANYBODY that was against the reduction of death penalty. but neither did i meet anybody that was for the swap out. just hit youtube and look "dolera war". (dunno if u ever saw) the dynamics of dolera wars are always in close battle situations, where trapping is the main weapon used by BOTH TEAMS. it'd be a huge change in the gameplay, a hard change. and thats what people do not like

if u needed some1 that plays hardcore pvp actively on that focus group i would be down for a ride for sure. just hit me up on dolera (dunno if you're the one that chooses or anything but ye). i have plenty of time these days XD made over twice the work every week at my job during the summer to get 2 months vacation eheh


edit ::;

all im saying is, you want more players on pvp-e, i want more players on pvp-e

but new players gotta be low levels, and since this is hardcore pvp, they will be asked to fight at a time or another. and as new players of dolera,they will be low levels facing high levels all the time. if they want a chance to survive on such a "hard" server, they need tools to fight back these high levels. the only tool they got is teaming up with other low levels and trap the high level to kill him. trying to outrun him results in a fail, and adding swap out only leads to one thing... the high level running away every single time.

Originally posted by Guardakan on 16.09.2010 11:13:15:
>
> when i talk about it ingame to my war enemies (most
> of em are very friendly u know i have nice talk
> with alot of em very often), or in ventrilo with my
> allies, i did not meet ANYBODY that was against the
> reduction of death penalty. but neither did i meet
> anybody that was for the swap out. just hit youtube
> and look "dolera war". (dunno if u ever saw) the
> dynamics of dolera wars are always in close battle
> situations, where trapping is the main weapon used by
> BOTH TEAMS. it'd be a huge change in the gameplay, a
> hard change. and thats what people do not like

Your first argument is invalid for the simple fact that Dolera is full of die hard power hungry kids (the worst kind) who will literally say or do anything to stay on top.

I have seen many Dolera battles, and the dynamic I've seen mostly is run towards enemies, EKs throw a few mwalls here and there, the rest combo bot your enemy to shit.

> if u needed some1 that plays hardcore pvp actively on
> that focus group i would be down for a ride for sure.
> just hit me up on dolera (dunno if you're the one
> that chooses or anything but ye). i have plenty of
> time these days XD made over twice the work every
> week at my job during the summer to get 2 months
> vacation eheh
>
>
> edit ::;
>
> all im saying is, you want more players on pvp-e, i
> want more players on pvp-e
>
> but new players gotta be low levels, and since this
> is hardcore pvp, they will be asked to fight at a
> time or another. and as new players of dolera,they
> will be low levels facing high levels all the time.
> if they want a chance to survive on such a "hard"
> server, they need tools to fight back these high
> levels. the only tool they got is teaming up with
> other low levels and trap the high level to kill him.
> trying to outrun him results in a fail, and adding
> swap out only leads to one thing... the high level
> running away every single time.

Yeah but that's the thing - I think we can all agree that trapping someone without any form of escape until he burns all his supplies is simply lame - if this is not the case you seem to forget that he still needs to swap himself out of a place.

Which is not that simple either (I still haven't bothered to try out myself, so mind you I base this on simply what I heard) atleast if you have the firepower to take him down rather quickly (Which you do, if he can heal up you'd have to trap him until he's out of supplies, which I think is lame and should be removed)

Like Aleppe is saying if you remove the swapping on pvp-e we're stuck with the problem of being able to trap someone without any escape possible, so come up with something better if you can.

Giving the high levels a slight possibility to escape is a small price to pay in my opinion, considering how there's still plenty of ways to keep someone trapped.
________________

I've got something to say! I killed your baby today! It doesn't matter much to me, as long as it's fuckin' dead!

Originally posted by Aleppe on 16.09.2010 07:48:09:
> Originally posted by Dusty Starlight on 16.09.2010
> 07:31:56:
> > Dolera 118
> > Inferna 61
> >
> > and still, they come here saying that things
> should
> > stay like they are. Bunch of botters and griefers
> > wannabe.
>
> x2

Similarities to other server types, not the lack thereof, are the reasons for the decrease in our servers populations(players, not bots). The addition of blessings, and the removal of experience and shorter rune delay are prime examples. The less differences we have from other server types, the less reasons people have to bother playing here.

The solution is simple: add swapping on PvP worlds ONLY. The players who would like to play without swapping, have one more reason to come play Hardcore PvP.

edit@ Linkirvana:
There are only two "sides" on Dolera. Mine does not use a combo bot.
________________

- Your friendly neighborhood Sharp Dressed Man Encourage Hardcore PvP! Say NO to Swappy Time!

add if u want, but not on hardcore pvp, u ruined 90% good thing so far, dont ruin the last 10% please
________________

No more misleading thread titles please! /Pawel

Originally posted by Aleppe on 16.09.2010 07:48:09:
> Originally posted by Dusty Starlight on 16.09.2010
> 07:31:56:
> > Dolera 118
> > Inferna 61
> >
> > and still, they come here saying that things
> should
> > stay like they are. Bunch of botters and griefers
> > wannabe.
>
> x2

Who else is tired of this aleppe character always putting in on in conversations he has no real knowledge of. Aleppe needs to concern himself with what he knows about instead of involving himself in everyone elses business

Originally posted by Aleppe on 16.09.2010 10:24:10:
> Originally posted by Raspoutine on 16.09.2010
> 10:15:04:
> > i just hope you guys (cip) realise that the 20
> pages
> > of signatures against the implementation of this
> > swap-out signature on PVP-e represent the WHOLE
> > POPULATION of the pvp-enforced servers... NOBODY
> ON
> > IT WANT THAT.
> >
> >
> > hope you listen to us... this time for once...
>
>
> Mind to tell me just one reason to listen to players
> complaints given that Hardcore pvp servers are dead
> servers and that who's complaining here are right
> those who want to keep things like they are now?
>
>
> Aleppe

Alright, Mister Aleppe, you want a logical arguement against this? I'll go ahead and hit every base of these changes at once.

Starting with the easy one: Feature: PvP-Blessing, with this intact, the side that has the larger number of players on it will undoubtedy win battles from now on, how hard is it to carry an extra 150k on you and just continue running out to the battle field fighting every time you die. The blessings aren't hard to get to, and the fair fight rule lowers the pvp loss to rediculous levels. I.E. yesterday a team of us doleran players numbering only around 10 people highest level of 150 average of about 110 were killing these level 200-250 MS's after 13 DEATHS, they had only lost 5 levels and if this was real tibia approximently 130k before supplies. Now sure we get the bonus of Fair Fight and PvP Blessings as well, but the winning side is typiclly higher leveled and the Fair Fight rules aren't working in their current implementation on the PVP test, they're way too strong even when being killed by lower levels.


Feature: PZ On Demand The removal of this hurts small teams across the board, I can understand how it was unfair to create PZs anywhere on the map, but allowing stack cannons on PvP-E will make the server unplayable. Before they implemented the change it was not unlikely to see these in any town on any day 1 hitting anything that walked pass, there is no kill limit and no penatly for excessive killing, even with fair fight rules/pvp blessings getting headshot, IS. NOT. FUN.

Feature: Swapping Position If Trapped This one is a bit more complicated for me as I have not fully explored it's features, but from the time me and my team spent on the Test Server, as well as the other team on Dolera (the one's who control the server) we've both concluded this system is just horrendous, its taking a huge blow into what remains of tibia's unique pvp atmosphere. Trapping is necessary for both the losing teams and the winning teams, neither team benefits from not being able to kill the other, this is player verus player enforced, not player vs player escape. Trapping allows the underdogs to actually kill people who outlevel them instead of making them into immortal God's.


Conclusion, these changes, while maybe they're needed on open-pvp, I can not comment as I do not play there, are definetly not postive for PvP-Eservers.


Also Aleppe, I know this is a cliche'd and weak arguement, but please keep your opinions to non-pvp while posting on a non-pvp character, as I based off your "knowledge" of OUR servers (dolera/inferna) I can almost guaruntee you have either never played them or have never been a signficant part of either of our communities or if you have it was long enough ago that your speculations about our playstyle is outdated or incorrect.


Sincerly,



Dolera



P.S. I welcome a reponse from you addressing my points, I'd also welcome you to prove me wrong regarding you having no/little first hand knowledge of our servers.
________________

Dear World, I have the internet and a keyboard so you have to listen to me

Originally posted by Guardakan on 16.09.2010 11:13:15:
> Originally posted by Aleppe on 16.09.2010
> 11:03:40:
> > Guardakan, your attitude is the one I like most,
> and
> > I've no doubt saying that I'd would like to have
> you
> > in the Focus Group discussion.
> >
> > The point is : do ut des (give to be given)
> >
> > This is how the Focus Group worked and still
> works:
> >
> > Don't you want swaps in Hardcore?
> > There must be a Counterweight
> >
> >
> > Aleppe
>
> when i talk about it ingame to my war enemies (most
> of em are very friendly u know i have nice talk
> with alot of em very often), or in ventrilo with my
> allies, i did not meet ANYBODY that was against the
> reduction of death penalty. but neither did i meet
> anybody that was for the swap out. just hit youtube
> and look "dolera war". (dunno if u ever saw) the
> dynamics of dolera wars are always in close battle
> situations, where trapping is the main weapon used by
> BOTH TEAMS. it'd be a huge change in the gameplay, a
> hard change. and thats what people do not like
>
> if u needed some1 that plays hardcore pvp actively on
> that focus group i would be down for a ride for sure.
> just hit me up on dolera (dunno if you're the one
> that chooses or anything but ye). i have plenty of
> time these days XD made over twice the work every
> week at my job during the summer to get 2 months
> vacation eheh
>
>
> edit ::;
>
> all im saying is, you want more players on pvp-e, i
> want more players on pvp-e
>
> but new players gotta be low levels, and since this
> is hardcore pvp, they will be asked to fight at a
> time or another. and as new players of dolera,they
> will be low levels facing high levels all the time.
> if they want a chance to survive on such a "hard"
> server, they need tools to fight back these high
> levels. the only tool they got is teaming up with
> other low levels and trap the high level to kill him.
> trying to outrun him results in a fail, and adding
> swap out only leads to one thing... the high level
> running away every single time.

Max, I was with you at first on the death reduction, but it's way too strong, come in vent later I'll tell you about it
________________

Dear World, I have the internet and a keyboard so you have to listen to me

Aleppe your still talking about that darn PvP repeated death junk? I'v already told you again and again it isn't a problem and again and again I have shown why. Ill simply repeat myself here, It isn't necessary end of statement, im not going to write another essay as to why, again.
________________

As the old saying goes... "Fifty NO's and one YES means YES!"

@ Pegon ~:

P.S. I welcome a reponse from you addressing my points, I'd also welcome you to prove me wrong regarding you having no/little first hand knowledge of our servers

To put things in their proper order: when it comes to talk about any kind of pvp environment with me, the only one who has to prove something is you, since what I had to show I've already showed through years in all servers kinds like I did when I've done the 1st POI on a PVP-E server years ago (old JS - Inferna).

When you talk with me you need to calm down and to keep in mind that there is nothing you're going to say that will surprise me, but that it may happen the contrary. The fact that I post with this char is my own business, and I don't give a beloved... cookie if it hurts you. Got the point big mouth?

This said:


The blessings aren't hard to get to, and the fair fight rule lowers the pvp loss to rediculous levels

There is no FAIR player not having cash trouble in Hardocre pvp servers. Also, FFrs apply just in case of unbalanced fights and, to give you an example Mr. big mouth, a lv 100 needs to be fragged by lv 500 killers (sum of all levels) to benefit of the max reduction. So what?

PZ On Demand The removal of this hurts small teams

Yes, and that's why I would have preferred just the 1st 8 players in stack being able to deal pvp damages, or to make all players in stacks able to deal pvp damages within the same stack and even less players able to deal pvp damage out of it. I've witten all this over 2 months ago in FOcus Group discussion and even few days ago in this same board. So what?


Trapping allows the underdogs to actually kill people who outlevel them instead of making them into immortal God's.

Traps are still possible, and even on large scale. Do not blame me if you've not got the time to test swaps or if you haven't enough pvp skills to do so.


Also Aleppe, I know this is a cliche'd and weak arguement, but please keep your opinions to non-pvp while posting on a non-pvp character

No. So what? Will you cry, puppy?
You're not even able o understand that one can post from an Optional PVp char o from a noobchar for infinite different reasons, but still you want to show to be able o udnerstand how tune PVP features. LMAO.

Last but not least: come back when you'll have enabled your comprehension rate on acceptable levels.


Aleppe
________________

INFLICTING PAIN ON GRIEFERS PVP BLESSING LIMIT CONTAINERS CAP! §OLD ACCOUNTS§ Ancients power

I do not care about any option given here, but for once, please let our hardcore-pvp-server-players decide about our own server instead of let some guy who is playing open or optional pvp decide what is gonna happen to hardcore pvp servers? Everyone who plays hardcore pvp is satisfied with the way things are now, I can understand if optional/open pvp servers need a change, but please do not change the hardcore pvp servers cause trust me, no one wants it to be changed, especially not because some guys who aren't even playing the same server type think so.

I have taken some time to examine the issue of swaps on pvp-e.

The dynamics on pvp-e are much different that pvp servers. On pvp-e the higher level can just kill the "noob" that is blocking him. If needed the high level can even use area spells, as his only "worry" would be in dealing damage to a friend, if he has a friend in the area at the time.

This is something that can NOT be done on a pvp server. You can't attack those noobs, because then you get a skull, and the pk team would just kill the noobs so you get a fast red or black skull, which makes your losses much worse.

You can't use an area spell for the same reason. It would be just pure suicide and cause you a lot of harm with a red or black skull.

The swap feature was designed primarily for pvp servers.

I can see where the swap rules would be to the disadvantage of the dynamics of the pvp-e server. Especially the rule about not being able to swap with someone you attacked first. This would be a huge game change to the philosophy of how pvp-e servers work.

IMHO, putting the swap on pvp-e servers needs to be reconsidered. I would suggest a further debate on it, and IMHO at this time I would have to lean towards not putting the swap feature on pvp-e.

---------------

Death cost on pvp-e.

IMHO due to the dynamics of how a low level can be killed at any time, with no consequence at all to the high level or gang, I really don't see how blessings, not even the cost of the pvp blessing could be afforded on the pvp-e servers.

On the TS I spent a fortune on the pvp blessing in just a few short days on low/mid level chars. The only way I could afford those blessings was due to the TS assistant handing out wealth by the bucket load! I can not imagine being killed in a similar manner and being able to afford it as a low to mid level char.

So I think that for new players to pvp-e even with FFR and pvp-blessing (which they can't afford to begin with) the cost is still too high and you won't see new players be able to overcome this problem.

plis dont put this in pvp-e.
Knights and paladins are will inmortals.
5 mages lvl 200 can't kill paladin lvl 200.
Now with this 10 mages lvl 200 can't kill paladin lvl 200.
And mages with utamo in a war are very dificult kill.

I think is good idea if u can changing position only if dont have parcel, fire.. in they position

Please dont put this feature in hardcore pvp we dont want it at all,

dont let the optional pvpers decide what happens to the server we play on.

We dont have a problem with noob characters its simply not needed

Not only on Hardcore pvp, on ALL the servers it's the same so I don't agree with this feature AT ALL. But if it's added take in mind my other post.

Not Signed!

-DR

DO NOT implement this on hardcore PvP servers.

I honestly enjoy this new feature. I think it brings more tactics and skill back into the pvp besides just simple hotkey pressing and commanding an army well. It actually requires thinking and planning.

Its been nothing but fun for me to play around with traps, discover new strategies and see pvp actually evolve. Sometimes people escape. Sometimes they don't. This seems fair to me as I never really understood why being trapped in Tibia = pretty much dead.

-Taure
________________

Never judge one by their level or skills; judge them by their kindness and personality.

Originally posted by Linkirvana on 16.09.2010 12:08:22:
> Originally posted by Guardakan on 16.09.2010
> 11:13:15:
> >
[...] what people do not like
>
> Your first argument is invalid for the simple fact
> that Dolera is full of die hard power hungry kids
> (the worst kind) who will literally say or do
> anything to stay on top.
>
> I have seen many Dolera battles, and the dynamic I've
> seen mostly is run towards enemies, EKs throw a few
> mwalls here and there, the rest combo bot your enemy
> to shit.
>

it's not been like that for 4 years LOL. go look more recent cams and talk to me again.

> > if u needed some1 that plays hardcore pvp actively
> on
[...]
> > but new players gotta be low levels, and since
> this
> > is hardcore pvp, they will be asked to fight at a
> > time or another. and as new players of
> dolera,they
> > will be low levels facing high levels all the time.
>
> > if they want a chance to survive on such a "hard"
> > server, they need tools to fight back these high
> > levels. the only tool they got is teaming up with
> > other low levels and trap the high level to kill
> him.
> > trying to outrun him results in a fail, and
> adding
> > swap out only leads to one thing... the high level
> > running away every single time.
>
> Yeah but that's the thing - I think we can all agree
> that trapping someone without any form of escape
> until he burns all his supplies is simply lame - if
> this is not the case you seem to forget that he still
> needs to swap himself out of a place.
>
PVP is meant not to let urself get trapped. in addition to that, you already have tools to un-trap yourself :::

A: kill the trappers
B: push the trappers
C: (when they put gp, worm, gp , worm under them... them cheaters eh), you put fire field under the guy and push him.

> Which is not that simple either (I still haven't
> bothered to try out myself, so mind you I base this
> on simply what I heard) atleast if you have the
> firepower to take him down rather quickly (Which you
> do, if he can heal up you'd have to trap him until
> he's out of supplies, which I think is lame and
> should be removed)

tibia is a team game anyways, when will a guy get trapped and attacked for 5 hours until he is out of supplies and than killed??? i mean if you cant kill him after a minute ull already have to worry about hsi friends coming form ur back.

>
> Like Aleppe is saying if you remove the swapping on
> pvp-e we're stuck with the problem of being able to
> trap someone without any escape possible, so come up
> with something better if you can.

like i said above : push, firefield push, kill, call friends to kill. (dont forget that swap out was put because on normal pvps, you cannot always kill your killers and therefore have to pretty much die to get out, it is not the case on dolera, you can kill whoever traps you, and if they kill you before u kill any of them in order to get out, than you just diserve to die


>
> Giving the high levels a slight possibility to escape
> is a small price to pay in my opinion, considering
> how there's still plenty of ways to keep someone
> trapped.

SLIGHT??? possibility. a level 250 will escape a body block trap in 2 seconds (and thats the only way u can trap him anyways............... and good luck killin him if he can swap out from a side to the other of your team before you can kill him (and you wont kill him cuz hes got 8k mana lol)

Hi

Originally posted by Sir on 16.09.2010 17:01:25:
> plis dont put this in pvp-e.
> Knights and paladins are will inmortals.
> 5 mages lvl 200 can't kill paladin lvl 200.
> Now with this 10 mages lvl 200 can't kill paladin lvl
> 200.
> And mages with utamo in a war are very dificult
> kill.
>
> I think is good idea if u can changing position only
> if dont have parcel, fire.. in they position

The same argument could be done for open pvp...
Its still possible to kill a high level knight with this swapping feature, but of course you need more organisation then before.

I think the most valuable reason to not implement it in hardcore pvp worlds is that noob chars are no problem but have problems in hardcore pvp worlds

So its for sure worth to discuss if this will mean any improvement for hardcore pvp worlds.

Of course 10 level 200 mages should be able to kill any paladin or knight of level 200. Their average damage should be around 3k/attack round, and Im sure they are even at hardcore pvp worlds.

And this example is fully rediculous, because there are up to no level 200 in hardcore pvp worlds (2 in inferna and 13 in dolera)
________________

Solve the depot trashing problem

Swapping position shouldnt be available if you have pz-lock, i mean this feature will be a great benefit for people who gets trapped by pk teams,example: You go walking around kazz, and a pk team trap you, surround you with lvl 8s and hit you until you ran out of pots and kill you,but now you will be able to escape from them.
And now look at it in a war for example, besides being able to stair-hop for countless hours, if they finally manage to trap you, you can easily escape, that aint fair.
Make swapping position only available if you have white swords( just battle), and unavailable if you have red/black swords( pz-lock)
________________

Waiting for life to be good to you, just because you're a good person is like hoping that a bull don't ram you just because you're a vegeterian.

please dont put this feature on dolera. we dont need it... feature implemented for normal pvps, put it on normal pvps.... ONLY

Consider the fact that he plays on pvp-e and he knows what hes talking about, and you,you just play on non-pvp.
Originally posted by Magus Firefly on 16.09.2010 19:36:37:
________________

Waiting for life to be good to you, just because you're a good person is like hoping that a bull don't ram you just because you're a vegeterian.

Originally posted by Chipirindingui on 16.09.2010 19:38:42:
> Swapping position shouldnt be available if you have
> pz-lock, i mean this feature will be a great benefit
> for people who gets trapped by pk teams,example: You
> go walking around kazz, and a pk team trap you,
> surround you with lvl 8s and hit you until you ran
> out of pots and kill you,but now you will be able to
> escape from them.
> And now look at it in a war for example, besides
> being able to stair-hop for countless hours, if they
> finally manage to trap you, you can easily escape,
> that aint fair.
> Make swapping position only available if you have
> white swords( just battle), and unavailable if you
> have red/black swords( pz-lock)

this is really interesting idea.

if a guy attacked anybody and than gets trapped, than he has to un-trap himself the old way (kill, push, firefield push, call friends and kill). if in the other hand he gets attacked and does not fight back, than he can swap out instead (lets say he was lvling while he gets attacked). this would not change the dynamics of pvp-e battles since every1 gets PZlock in there, even if you attack second.
________________

signed, hullong's post character :*

Originally posted by Chipirindingui on 16.09.2010 19:42:28:
> Consider the fact that he plays on pvp-e and he knows
> what hes talking about, and you,you just play on
> non-pvp.
> Originally posted by Magus Firefly on 16.09.2010
> 19:36:37:

to be honest it doesnt matter that he doesnt play pvp-e, since he could be looking forward to play one if it was made to be easier. but this change tho is unnecessary (i repeat it again). it was meant to avoir low levels to trap high levels on pvp servers. we already have tools on dolera to avoid getting traped by low levels (kill, firefield push, normal push, friends to help killing......... AND WHAT WE CALL PVP (or at least what remains of it), NOT GETTING TRAPPED LOL).

Originally posted by Taure on 16.09.2010 19:28:40:
> I honestly enjoy this new feature. I think it brings
> more tactics and skill back into the pvp besides just
> simple hotkey pressing and commanding an army well.
> It actually requires thinking and planning.
>
> Its been nothing but fun for me to play around with
> traps, discover new strategies and see pvp actually
> evolve. Sometimes people escape. Sometimes they
> don't. This seems fair to me as I never really
> understood why being trapped in Tibia = pretty much
> dead.
>
> -Taure

YOU SIR, are the reason we cant have nice things.

That is all.

Originally posted by Rocket Warrior on 16.09.2010 20:06:37:
> Originally posted by Taure on 16.09.2010
> 19:28:40:
> > I honestly enjoy this new feature. I think it
> brings
> > more tactics and skill back into the pvp besides
> just
> > simple hotkey pressing and commanding an army
> well.
> > It actually requires thinking and planning.
> >
> > Its been nothing but fun for me to play around
> with
> > traps, discover new strategies and see pvp
> actually
> > evolve. Sometimes people escape. Sometimes they
> > don't. This seems fair to me as I never really
> > understood why being trapped in Tibia = pretty
> much
> > dead.
> >
> > -Taure

for pvp/non pvp servers, this is right.

if you read my other post, pvp-e already had solutions to survive traping (starting by not getting traped, part of pvp; push, FFpush, kill...)

Hi

Originally posted by Chipirindingui on 16.09.2010 19:42:28:
> Consider the fact that he plays on pvp-e and he knows
> what hes talking about, and you,you just play on
> non-pvp.
> Originally posted by Magus Firefly on 16.09.2010
> 19:36:37:

Consider the fact that he spoke about a non existing situation in hardcore pvp: many level 200 attacking an other level 200 char.

Thats exactly what I wrote and of course im clearly right here.

And if you read my comment you would see that I did not write this should come to hardcore pvp servers, but in constrary that we should discuss if this makes sense for hardcore pvp servers.

Guardakan is fully right that this swapping was made to avoid the low level interference in wars. This has now evolved to a new features to escape traps for everyone.

And I also of course fully agree with all of you who said that the low level interference is only a by far smaller problem in hardcore pvp.

Its a fact that you can still kill everyone if you fight with an organised team, no matter how high his level is. This also counts for hardcore pvp, even if the swapping will come.

But you must plan better and think about possible ways to escape for the victim, lure him into situations where he cant swap...

Example: If a mage would come to the idea to ue to get rid of the noob chars blocking him, (which would make sense in principle at hardcore pvp) he also hits "all" others which means he looses his chance to swap with any of them (if they have not attacked him before) rendering him trapped. So he must be very careful thinking about what to do.

So alltogether I think there are 2 points here:

1. you must learn more about swapping to jugde if its really as bad for hardcore pvp as you think
2. low level interference is "no real" problem in hardcore pvp servers, so no reason to add the swapping feature.
________________

Solve the depot trashing problem

So what's happening here is that when lets say a group of my friend and me are going to kill a guy in lets say an open battle.

As a Knight, it's my job to get to the guy and try to trap him. But what you're saying is that if me and my fellow friends manage to trap the guy painstakingly after seemingly hours of mwalling and paralyzes, he can just swap out and be on his merry way? He can't swap back with the other person, but he can swap again with another person quickly (1 second delay)

This is to clarify what I'm trying to get across, and whether this is what is going to be implemented.

For Example:
X - Fellow teammates + myself
- - Mwalls
O - Guy we're trying to kill

Stage 1:

Guy is trapped.

- - - -
X X X -
- O - -
X X - -
X X X X

Stage 2:
Guy swaps with guy below him

- - - -
X X X -
- X - -
X O - -
X X X X

Stage 3:
After 1 second, the guy swaps with the next guy

- - - -
X X X -
- X - -
X X - -
X O X X

Stage 4:

Guy gets away

- - - -
X X X -
- X - -
X X - -
X X X X


So every second, this guy is able to swap with one of my group to get out of a trap? If you look at it from my perspective, I'm playing in an American server from Australia. My latency would be around 400, and others would be also. That would give someone in America a much bigger chance of getting out because of the delay between us recieving the information and doing something about it.

Hence, people are able to get out of traps far too easily. And in an open battle, I'm not going to risk my butt for my team, taking heavy fire from pallies and mages if I can trap a guy and he can just swap me away and run off.

Definately what would be best is if the hardcore servers in general could be tweaked to better suit the tastes of the players currently there, and the players who are seeking to play there.
some examples would be the return of the pvp exp's , and remove item protections so to properly provide a truely hardcore game-environment as death defying and hostile as possable.

Its long overdue in my opinon that the communitys there on hardcore servers be given proper concideration.

I presume that it is a matter of technical conciderations or game mechanics of some description that seem to result in the hardcore players being led down the same road as those in the entirely different open pvp game environments , so it is here again with these important changes for open pvp

These features will perhaps NEED to be implimented in open-pvp, I think they are essentual on open
but there will always be an aspect of fear and daring that some players will crave that they only seem to achieve in high risk pvp atmospheres
I concider it is best if this particular feature is not introduced to pvp hardcore but only and definately to pvp-open.

Additionally my opinion is that when this feature is introduced along with the other features most players will develop and adjust and frankly 'get over it' but also that when this feature is introduced a lot of players now pvp'g on open servers will crave some more action and want to have at least the option of a true hardcore server to remain available.

Thankyou.

honestly aleppe, I've read some more of your posts now, and after this post I'm going to simply ignore you. You call me a big mouth but honestly guy, read some of your own posts.

You're right you don't have to prove anything to me, but your ego is huge if you actually think I need to prove anything to your self-entitled, self-serving personality.

You will never have a good debate with others as you come into everything with your head way above everyone else.

Finally, in addition to you stating your involvment in inferna as being on the first PoI team, that was what, 2 years ago? You seem to have preconceived notions about our servers that are warped and outdated leaving to the obvious conclusion that you are probably no longer a part of either dolera or inferna.


Goodbye kid.




also, I'm no longer going to fight to preserve my servers if decisions are made the way I've seen screenshots of those "focus groups" go. If PvP-E is ruined me and most of my team are gone off this game, and unlike the promises these non-pvpers have had about switching to open-pvp/hardcore if the things they've asked for (and receieved) are done, we will actually hold to our word and cancel our premiums.
________________

Dear World, I have the internet and a keyboard so you have to listen to me

Originally posted by Taure on 16.09.2010 19:28:40:
> I honestly enjoy this new feature. I think it brings
> more tactics and skill back into the pvp besides just
> simple hotkey pressing and commanding an army well.
> It actually requires thinking and planning.
>
> Its been nothing but fun for me to play around with
> traps, discover new strategies and see pvp actually
> evolve. Sometimes people escape. Sometimes they
> don't. This seems fair to me as I never really
> understood why being trapped in Tibia = pretty much
> dead.
>
> -Taure

It will just turn more easy to escape from an snake attack or an masslog.

It will just destroy tibia old and nice tatics that still remain.

DO NOT IMPLEMENT IT.
________________

Yours, Fenek the "King of Venore". Don't give us 20 unjusts for killing 1 guy! Tibian Age Outfit

 

Alright


Lets ruin another one for Tibia

After testing this feature out a lot i found some things that i find incorrect.

Currently you cant swap without taking damage, but this limitation can be gone around by doing self-inflicted damage to your self, for example putting a fire field under you. This seems very contradiction to me.

First, why make so you cant swap unless you take damage if you can just make damage to your self and then be able to swap?

Secondly, this will make yet another thing be different between open/hardcore pvp and optional pvp servers since they cant do any self inflicted damage and then not swap in this way. It was not long ago there were done changes to limit those differences as much as possible so adding another doest make sense.

In my opinion this should be changed to either you can swap without the need of taking damage or you should not be able to swap unless you take pvp damage from anyone except yourself.

Now lets see... I can start it I guess with dont implent this on hardcore pvp.

We got absolutely no need for it, quite the opposite, adding it would just ruin the balance that exists in pvp on hardcore servers.
Theres two sides on hardcore pvp fight eachother, sometimes its a three way war but those only lasts for a week max before the third party either joins 1 side or splits up into both. But nvm that.

What is the situation if swapping was added on hardcore would be the side with the higher levels, the people that are so hard to kill even with the ability to trap them just because of the fact they are so fast, trapping them only happends rarely. If, for example Piixy or Almighty Danne would get in a sitatuion to be trapped, we would make sure the mwalls have at least 10 seconds left on them before we start counting the sd combo. I just cant imagine how we could kill em if they could just swap out of our team.

As I said at the start, this would damage the balance on pvp hardcore, not benefit any of it except around 4 high levels on Inferna. Maybe a bit more on Dolera. The rest of the population of hardcore servers would have to quit, being unable to fight against those having the control.

Please think about it.
________________

Here to create something. Your Hellcry

this is another dumb idea, if your involved in pvp one of the main tactics to kill a high lvl knight or such is to trap and kill them. and this would give a big advantage to a bigger team in a battle... stop making this game about who has more friends and turn it back into about having more skill...
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Freedom is NEVER Free...

no thats all i have to say is NO!!

fix something else

like loot drops or price npcs buys rares

i wonder how long its gonna take for someone to find a way to abuse this function just how the stacking function was abused around the same day as the update came out

ur making this game just like wow STOP IT!!

u guys allready got owned by wizards of the coast for the whole "beholder thing"

now u want blizzard to come and stomp u guys to the ground eh lol

People that is in party shouldn't count in the damage to swap, since people makes a defense and i come with a team in party so we attack each other and i can swap with the defense guy and break the defense.

-Kingpin.
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"Being defeated is often a temporary condition. Giving up is what makes it permanent."

Originally posted by Sephferiuz on 17.09.2010 00:56:42:
> People that is in party shouldn't count in the damage
> to swap, since people makes a defense and i come with
> a team in party so we attack each other and i can
> swap with the defense guy and break the defense.
>
> -Kingpin.


I lol'ed

big solutions sometimes are so simply...
it's solve some problems and makes total sense...
if someone is on party with you, we supose it's because they are together, not against, so these people won't trap each other... so, no swamp if someone besides you is on party
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/Thaigon Made in Brasil.

 

Tibia test server bug? switching places with someone gives you exaust so you cant heal yourself. So it can be easily abused.

Whatever you do dont inplent this in hardcore pvp please!
As people said on open pvp servers there are always alot of noobchars blocking and destroying the fun of war but on harcore pvp there are no noobchar(if there is they die instantly).
This swapping thing will ruin the pvp on hardcore because it will be inpossible to kill any high lvls at all.

Lets say i get m walled in and trapped by people around me i would just swap and be on my way out again so it would be impossible to kill anyone.


PLEASE DONT INPLENT THIS!
________________

I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

Originally posted by Pegon Poxalis on 16.09.2010 21:55:54:
> honestly aleppe, I've read some more of your posts
> now, and after this post I'm going to simply ignore
> you. You call me a big mouth but honestly guy, read
> some of your own posts.
>
> You're right you don't have to prove anything to me,
> but your ego is huge if you actually think I need to
> prove anything to your self-entitled, self-serving
> personality.
>
> You will never have a good debate with others as you
> come into everything with your head way above
> everyone else.
>
> Finally, in addition to you stating your involvment
> in inferna as being on the first PoI team, that was
> what, 2 years ago? You seem to have preconceived
> notions about our servers that are warped and
> outdated leaving to the obvious conclusion that you
> are probably no longer a part of either dolera or
> inferna.

3 years. they did it a few months after pande/dc war started.

>
> Goodbye kid.
>
>
>
>
> also, I'm no longer going to fight to preserve my
> servers if decisions are made the way I've seen
> screenshots of those "focus groups" go. If PvP-E is
> ruined me and most of my team are gone off this game,
> and unlike the promises these non-pvpers have had
> about switching to open-pvp/hardcore if the things
> they've asked for (and receieved) are done, we will
> actually hold to our word and cancel our premiums.


but yeh , the fact somebody played a pvp-e BACK IN THE DAYS doesnt make him know the needs/dynamics of it NOW. i can tell that in the last years, dolera for instance, changed A LOT. it went from almost every1 cheat to ::: a team of no-cheaters (level 90s) VS a team of massive-combo-bot cheaters (level 150s).

(on a side note, i do not support cheating. i only mentioned it to point out the fact that dolera changed alot in the battles' dynamics)

PLEASE DONT INPLENT THIS ON HARDCORE PVP!

WHAT IS IT?
its a joke!

it will be impossible to kill a high lvl knigh or paladins!


what you guys wanna do? make it impossible to kill? always create tools that make the pvp a joke!

now out of theory: my pk team goes to kill someone we mwall around him, trap him so, if we dont kill him in the mwall time, the target scapes, ahahah funny

THATS FUNNY, U TRAP THE TARGET, BUT U CANNOT ATK HIM, CUZ HE GONNA RUN AWAY IF U DO!

no offence but swap position is a joke!!
NOTHING PERSONAL

PLEASE DONT INPLENT THIS ON HARDCORE PVP!

Originally posted by Flamhethrower on 17.09.2010 03:12:51:
> WHAT IS IT?
> its a joke!
>
> it will be impossible to kill a high lvl knigh or
> paladins!
>
>
> what you guys wanna do? make it impossible to kill?
> always create tools that make the pvp a joke!
>
> now out of theory: my pk team goes to kill someone we
> mwall around him, trap him so, if we dont kill him in
> the mwall time, the target scapes, ahahah funny
>
> THATS FUNNY, U TRAP THE TARGET, BUT U CANNOT ATK HIM,
> CUZ HE GONNA RUN AWAY IF U DO!
>
> no offence but swap position is a joke!!
> NOTHING PERSONAL
>
> PLEASE DONT INPLENT THIS ON HARDCORE PVP!


JAJAJAJAJA, i love this br :*****

if i was called craban i would make everything in my power so it wouldnt get added on hardcore pvp or that guy will find you and kill you jajajajaja (both irl or ingame, if you play that is <which i doubt cuz ur a fag and dont realise how you fuck up all the game but anyways>
________________

signed, hullong's post character :*

i cant belive that thing...retired thx

This is just some lame joke, right?
Another one of those April Fool's fails?
Because I tested this system and it is terrible, no actually it's beyond that.
As previously mentioned this gives major advantages to bigger teams, bot teams, high level knights and pallies. It's as if you're trying to get rid of people.
I can assure you if you go through with this update, you'll no longer be receiving money from me.

Stop letting the ideas fall from your assess and just let the game be for a change.
________________

Spoken like a true Gentlemen.

 

i cant belive that thing...retired thx
________________

Loves me? mEsh.