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Feature: Swapping Position If Trapped

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Aleppe

Inhabitant of Nerana
Profession: Elder Druid
Level: 147

Posts: 5847


@ Ryonaka Beon:

if someone really doesnt want to be trap, killed etc etc... he can easily move to an optional pvp world and play tibia in peace all he wanted to, or just have the brains to not to get themselves into traps

There was even a third option: to post their feedbacks asking to add a new feature to make traps less effective. It appears that they totally owned you, not only your traps.


on Optional pvp worlds, where there SOO MUCH MORE POWER ABUSERS, BOTTER, BUG ABUSERS, GAME FEATURES ABUSERS

And they can't, out of the war system, harm each other via game design. Still, you keep insisting that n-pvp players ain't skilled.


@ Azriel:

I do not really get what's wrong in making traps in wars using war characters or trapping people by PKs. It's a part of the game and IMPORTANT feature in Open PvP servers.
I'd really appreciate if someone could explain this to me


I understand your concerns, and I'll show you that I've thought the same months ago in the Focus Group Discussion: we fought much more in Focus group than people here.

Originally posted by Aleppe on 16.07.2010 12:35:11:
> Middle solutions aren't solutions but failures:
> either do it as it has to be done or turn all servers
> into optional pvp ones. Non consensual fights mean
> non consensual fights and not fights to which
> somebody might decide to not take part, for Tibia's
> sake.
>
> One can't trap, can't do this,
> can't do that: are we talking about OPEN pvp
> servers or what?



Originally posted by Aleppe on 17.07.2010 08:45:24:
>
At the beginning of the battle the main
> activity is to screw with the enemy, and see if you
> can get the opposing side to break rank and seperate:
> noobchars are slow, hence try to move fast to leave
> them behind. The main frags of the battle won't come
> in this stage: no way to frag moving targets if you
> aren't facing pure pvp-noobs or out of supplies
> chars, given that to make them waste all their
> supplies you will have to waste yours too and that if
> you're a fair player to waste... hurts.
>
> Once the battle starts to break apart for good your
> job is to assist the knights in getting key
> traps
on key opponents, not allowing noobchars to
> reach you before you're done. Use time rings and
> haste to get ahead of the person running through
> woods, use MW to slow them down then move yourself
> and block their path.
>
> If a square opens up around them, giving them a
> chance to destroy field and side step out of the
> trap, drop a MW and call for someone to get ready to
> step into the position. If they will run away, you'll
> have just wasted time and supplies. Nothing
> else.

> Now do a thing: put all your traps counter-measures
> in this context (which, to make it easy, doesn't
> consider skulls, unjusts, illegal autohealers,
> autoaimers & co which would turn it far worst) and
> tell me what you see. I see just pure
> non-sense
: if one gets trapped HE HAS TO
> DIE
. The only thing which can be discussed is the
> trapped player pvp death aftermath, nothing else.
>
> Show me that I'm mistaken.


=> to be continued
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14.09.2010 11:21:38
Quote Post #28467697

 
Aleppe

Inhabitant of Nerana
Profession: Elder Druid
Level: 147

Posts: 5847


Originally posted by Aleppe on 21.07.2010 07:25:31:
> Originally posted by Nymet on 20.07.2010
> 21:41:58
:
> The question
> > with that feature is this, are you trying to stop
> > noob trap characters or are you trying to stop
> traps?
>
> It was supposed to be the 1st but it became clearly
> the second. This said, don't worry: it's supposed to
> work but it won't.


Originally posted by Aleppe on 22.07.2010 17:31:41:
> MS lv 200 (Hp 1145, Mp 5795 = 6940 mana shield)
>
> Any idea about how to kill him FAIRLY after the
> patch?
>
> => Blocking noobchars - 3rd part interference <=


Originally posted by Aleppe on 03.08.2010 08:19:44:
> Looking at how the whole discussion is developing,
> I'm leaving you with your visions in this board right
> here.


Then the Private Test Server started, and I've changed my mind, having seen that this feature doesn't nerf the pvp environment but, at contrary, brought much fun: to trap people and to organize good de is still possible, but requires pvp skills.

That's why I keep saying that you can't judge this feature looking at how one presents it to you, but you need to try it by yourself: if you'll have enough pvp skills you'll love it.

I can say it because I DID YOUR SAME MISTAKE BEFORE YOU!
.


Aleppe
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14.09.2010 11:25:12
Edited by Aleppe
on 14.09.2010 11:52:56
Quote Post #28467710

 
Azriel

Inhabitant of Shivera
Profession: Master Sorcerer
Level: 109

Posts: 2328


Well, maybe you're right, I just didn't have an opportunity to test it with my own team. Would be really great if we could at least organize a battle with 2 teams using ventrilo/team speak, cuz battles with random people without proper communication make no sense at all and do not let us actually see what's gonna happen.
And the other thing I'm worried about is that cheaters may again find a way to get an advantage over normal players with this feature.

Anyway, thanks for showing me your point of view


Yours,
Azzy
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14.09.2010 11:41:50
Quote Post #28467763

 
Aleppe

Inhabitant of Nerana
Profession: Elder Druid
Level: 147

Posts: 5847


Side-note: I've just learnt (Thais battle) how to mark an enemy with a white skull using the swapping feature (no bug, just pvp skills ).
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14.09.2010 13:16:29
Quote Post #28468127

 
Dee Souza

Inhabitant of Jamera
Profession: Sorcerer
Level: 33

Posts: 1


I dont know if this has already been posted cuz i haven't ready the entire topic (too much people crying)

As I can see This feature has worked well, but there's a bug.

Condition:
If someone get trapped near a stair or something that can make a bunch of players in the same sqm.

Problem:

Let's say that everybody around the player is attacking the target, but a random player appear, the player can change position with him. BUT EVERYONE ELSE IS ATTACKING.

I mean, there are 5 players arround the target and he got trapped with nowhere to move, all of them are attacking the target so he cant move at all. One of those players that are trapping and attacking the target is at the same sqm that the stair(when people move up/down the stair). So he can change with those players.. But if u analyse the entire situation he's trapped, but because of a random player he can abuse a bug.


___
And another thing that i have notted(not exatally in this feature) buti dont know where to post lol.

When there's an item under a player u cant put it in your backpack.. better saying.. u cant pull this item out at all..

This is about to work this way to prevent people from pushing loot from here to there or just to make easier to push people? cus i dont think that it'll really work this way :P
14.09.2010 13:26:09
Quote Post #28468184

 
Aleppe

Inhabitant of Nerana
Profession: Elder Druid
Level: 147

Posts: 5847


I mean, there are 5 players arround the target and he got trapped with nowhere to move, all of them are attacking the target so he cant move at all.

Nope.
If the victim doesn't deal pvp damage to those 5 players he will be able to swap all 5: otherwise, the attackers won't be able to swap him.

Your example applies to another case: when the player previously damaged all 5 characters which are trapping him, he won't be able to swap with them. If another player joins the stack, in this case he will have the possibility to swap that last player into the stack.

That's not a bug.


Aleppe
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14.09.2010 13:34:44
Quote Post #28468227

 
Craban
Product Manager

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Fixes online.
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A very good approach on how to play Tibia WITH others rather than AGAINST!
14.09.2010 13:47:40
Quote Post #28468307

 
Mathenus

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14.09.2010 14:49:54
Quote Post #28468605

 
Alecto Misc

Inhabitant of Danubia
Profession: Knight
Level: 17

Posts: 2198


Originally posted by Azriel on 14.09.2010 10:39:43:
> Well, I know this post isn't constructive, but I want
> to understand what are the reasons and the goals of
> swapping. I've never had problems with traps made my
> main/war mode chars. All I want is to prevent noob
> characters trapping people (specially in war mode),
> that's all. I do not really get what's wrong in
> making traps in wars using war characters or trapping
> people by PKs. It's a part of the game and IMPORTANT
> feature in Open PvP servers.
>
> I'd really appreciate if someone could explain this
> to me
>
>
> Yours,
> Azzy

Azzy,

Here is the thing, this is a pvp server with war mode feature. Every suggestion to prevent noob interference in wars was a suggestion that could be used to abuse innocent people. The swap feature was the only one that did not have all of those abuse potentials to it.

The second issue, is on the swap activation, how could it be activated just for war situations, without creating an abuse situation.

So actually, this swap feature is primarily for the war system, because it gives a war fighter the ability to swap out with all of the noob unskulled blockers that he can't attack. (I say can't attack because he does not want to take a skull and be bashed by the noobs not in the war mode!)

The side effect of this, is that the swap feature ALSO took care of the skull system trap that has been used to abuse people. So this had a second benefit that helps the neutral players.

In the focus group we brought up for phase 2 that we want to discuss how to allow those in a war to block their enemy. Because in a war traps are a valid strategy. So in the upcoming phase 2 discussion I am sure this will be a key topic.
14.09.2010 15:19:50
Quote Post #28468748

 
Kewie

Inhabitant of Elysia
Profession: Elder Druid
Level: 126

Salvation of the Cruoris

Posts: 32


Originally posted by Odyon on 14.09.2010 01:53:01:
> Originally posted by Fatley'kent on 14.09.2010
> 01:40:05
:
> > Originally posted by Riptiman Serinthun on
> > 14.09.2010 00:41:59
:
> > > I really don't like this idea.
> > >
> > > It will be impossible to trap a war enemy who
> > don't
> > > want to join war mode.
> > > It will be impossible to kill 300+ MS or 200+ EK
> > if
> > > he will be able to run out from the trap.
> > > It will be impossible to keep enemies away from
> > > gaining cash!
> > >
> > > 2 years ago, sunday, around 55000 people online,
> > 900
> > > on my world.
> > > Yesterday, 35000 people online, 250 on my world.
> > >
> > > That says all
> > >
> > > /Riptiman Serinthun.
> > Toyally Signed
> > I think that pvp is a very important part of the
> > tibian experience, If you get killed is not nice
> at
> > all specially if you are random killed (No
> reason).
> > But if you kill someone that deserves
> > it(thiefs,hackers,pks etc.)it is completly
> justified
> > to do it or if your guild is involved in a war.
> > Some people kill others for fun, others for
> personal
> > reasons, and others just for making justice.
> > Any of those are important reasons because lots of
> > players just play tibia for killing people, thats
> fun
> > for them.
> > The new feature of swapping position is completly
> > ruining the pvp experience, because trapping was
> one
> > of the main tools of killing people.
> > Im not a power abuser or a random pk, I just kill
> > people who deserves it.
> > Getting trap has never been that easy, you need
> > really experienced player or a non experienced one
> to
> > get real trapped (no way out).
> > This is why I think that this new feature is not
> good
> > or necessary.
> >
> > Yours.
> > Fatley.
>
> Very well said.

got to agree as well. a lot of nice updates on this update except for this one. listen to the community about this cip and don't do it!
14.09.2010 16:00:58
Quote Post #28468982

 
Aleppe

Inhabitant of Nerana
Profession: Elder Druid
Level: 147

Posts: 5847


Originally posted by Kewie on 14.09.2010 16:00:58:
> got to agree as well. a lot of nice updates on this
> update except for this one. listen to the community
> about this cip and don't do it!


Again: which Community? Cheaters one? Griefers one? Which Community? Tell me! Which Community? Where is that Community? Where are the posts? Where? Tell me!

Tell me where I can find a thread like Sanada's one for the 20 unjusts with k replies and views. Tell me for God's sake!

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14.09.2010 16:14:19
Quote Post #28469100

 
Stonejaw the Brute

Inhabitant of Solera
Profession: Knight
Level: 23

Posts: 85


Its quite simple really some players who mostly get pleasure from power abuseing others are complaining here as always they do because they dont trust their own ability to adapt to these new features.

I think its totally sad how some uber level server controling power guild guy's can fall to peices and mumble about community when all the time they were the same people who went out of their way to hurt the peacefull communitys for years and years making people quit and the game and killing the pvp open servers,
And all because as the occasional one is honest enough to post the only fun they can have is 'kill people' in other words to have their fun at the expence of somebody elses.

Now they talk about 'we' the community ? lol asif anyone is fooled.
14.09.2010 17:04:18
Quote Post #28469500

 
Ryonaka Beon

Inhabitant of Shivera
Profession: Master Sorcerer
Level: 128

Archangel of the Breaking Away (Bebechita)

Posts: 208


@aleppe


I never said that ppl of N-pvp servers weren't skilled enough so don't put those words in my hands please, I just said that all those wyners crying all over because they died by pkrs or w/e, should go to a non-pvp server and stop crying... and lets see if they will make it better there... besides, it doesn't need to much brains to hurt someone Using a monster that's stronger than your target... take it by example, I've saw a video of Tomurka luring lots of monsters on a group of guys in formorgar mines (and we all now, it's not the first or the last time, he does that)... will this make a different for those victims? will this improve anything besides the quantity of people quitting tibia?
I have been on test server, I have test all this new features, and I found it useless and lame, really, my lvl in test server now is 114, I tested it, I used it, and tbh I got out of a trap with it but, as a PVPer (and not a very skilled one to tell you the truth) at my sight this is only targeting to force people use the USELESS war system... will I have the chance to take revenge of a pker (or a group of pkers) if his (their) lvl is higher than mine? they will just kill me again xD what about if the guy(s) is running out of my screen? what about if they're several? Not even the most skilled pvp player can do that, at least the guy is TRAPPED (kinda contradiction don't u think?)... And personally in my sittuation if I manage to kill someone who's lvl is higher than mine, will I have the chance not to be assesinated later by this guy? -No I don't think so- but that's my problem... I just said this switch thing and new skull is ruining pvp even more than it's already (especially for knights, who has the bigger concerns about it - for the record Im a mage)

And About ur last comment:

I'M HERE LIKE ALL THOSE GUYS WHO'S COMMENTS ARE ON THE 12 PAGES BELOW THIS ONE, I'M HERE, THE REST IS STILL TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHY THE HECK CIP WANTS TO IMPLEMENT SUCH AN STUPID ASPECT IN THE GAME WE ALL LOVE, TO DESTROY IT EVEN MORE anyways that thread u mention, was useless cause they did it anyways :X

and finally:
CIP JUST CAN'T DO THIS KIND OF STUFF, BECAUSE THEY'RE A GROUP OF PROGRAMMERS WHO IM SURE ALMOST ALL OF THEM ACTUALLY DON'T PLAY TIBIA AT DAILY BASES, SO THEY SHOUL'D BE DECIDING WITCH THINGS TO DO AND NOT TO DO... AND EVEN IF THEY PLAY, THEY'RE NOT THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY they need to focus in WHAT WE LIKE AND WHAT WE DOESN'T and tbh to u they have already taken away lot's of things we The community use to love :S



@Stonejaw the Brute: what about the ones who just like to war? or the ones like me, who doesn't have any other way to survive than a war? that's the purpose of pvp worlds I think... and tbh I don't think you can find someone who has been PA'd by me
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14.09.2010 17:20:21
Edited by Ryonaka Beon
on 14.09.2010 17:24:26
Quote Post #28469625

 
Stonejaw the Brute

Inhabitant of Solera
Profession: Knight
Level: 23

Posts: 85


Originally posted by Ryonaka Beon on 14.09.2010 17:20:21:
> @Stonejaw the Brute: what about the ones who just
> like to war? or the ones like me, who doesn't have
> any other way to survive than a war? that's the
> purpose of pvp worlds I think... and tbh I don't
> think you can find someone who has been PA'd by me

@ Ryonaka Beon
I would suggest that 'ones like you' ought to concider taking some of your own 'advice' but rather then telling everybody who is more peacefull then you to "move to non pvp" why not ask yourself if you would not be better suited to playing in a hardcore server ?

With all due respect its not for you to decide the 'purpose' of pvp open worlds, i would suggest that the purpose is not only 'war' but it is supposed to be fun and the truth is that fun has been ruined for many many people just because a few people who like yourself see no other joy in tibia then unfair fights aganst weaker and outnumbered opponents.

My advice to you is just try to rise up too this new challenge , adapt yourself .. your inability to adapt to change is nobody elses fault ok, least of all that of the people who have had to suffer because your idea of fun is limited to hurting other players.
14.09.2010 18:16:17
Quote Post #28470156

 
Patifezinho

Inhabitant of Julera
Profession: Knight
Level: 21

Posts: 1


sux, if you are traped was for two reasons: you play badly, or was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

and trap and if you can move trap, ends with the essence of the game.
move the player with the same rubbish down, ok ...
but you'll end up with everything that was good game

cip could create another rune to clear rubbish underneath the player (to come to push anti cheater)
desintegrate like, but that does not give pz locked when you use...

cip is spoiling your game every day!

is not a question of adapting the new rules, the question is one: to ruin the game or new rules useless and stupid.

Note if you play in open pvp, you're there to kill or die ...
if you do not want to trap, not to kill or die
OPTIONAL go play in PVP WORLD.
I agree with you Ryonaka Béon spoke very well.
14.09.2010 18:37:34
Quote Post #28470302

 
Magus Firefly

Inhabitant of Refugia
Profession: Master Sorcerer
Level: 225

Smilodon of the Sixth Extinction

Posts: 5151


Hi

Originally posted by Patifezinho on 14.09.2010 18:37:34:

>
> Note if you play in open pvp, you're there to kill or
> die ...

No thats clearly the definition of hardcore pvp worlds, not open pvp.

CIPSOFT clearly wrote that they will reduce the possible kills by game design. At the moment they do it with the 20 unjusts and the skull system.

When the fair fight rules and the pvp blessings come it might be possible to think about a reducement of the 20 unjusts. If I were in CIPSOFT team I would start 1 month with the new rules, then decrease the unjusts (lets say to 5) and see if the first 2 points are still enough to keep the biggest majority of the server playing. Discussion threads will clearly show what unjust value is ok for both groups of players.

In my opinion it will be the stage when both think its a little bad for them

> if you do not want to trap, not to kill or die
> OPTIONAL go play in PVP WORLD.
> I agree with you Ryonaka Béon spoke very well.

Noone wants to die, so this dieing part makes not much sense.

The main point is like Aleppe wrote many times: open pvp is about nonconsensual fights! So if you dont love to be attacked if you are not in the "mood" to do a pvp fight you are indeed at the wrong server. No need at all that both parties agree about a fight in open pvp.

But for sure a need to balance all costs and losses, so that the more peaceful players and the pvp heros can enjoy the game, without any group having to leave (either because of bordom, or because of being killed too often/ending bankrupt...)

Additionally we do need many new high and very high level quests and hunting grounds, permanent PvM challenges... to avoid that experienced player feel bored around level 120-150.
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14.09.2010 19:07:38
Quote Post #28470516

 
Loka Vida'Loka

Inhabitant of Danera
Profession: Paladin
Level: 137

Posts: 15


Originally posted by Krun Levind on 12.09.2010 19:38:36:
> This is possibly the worst thing I have ever seen.
>
> Couldn't you just stop trying to make pvp servers
> more like non pvp?


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14.09.2010 19:08:11
Quote Post #28470526

 
Stonejaw the Brute

Inhabitant of Solera
Profession: Knight
Level: 23

Posts: 85


@Patifezinho
I just love these new features , what are you crying about exactly ?

Sorry but I disagree with your statements because any change to the game is most surely only a matter of adapting to it.
There are those who adjust and those who fail to adjust , if some player fails to adjust it is simply because they cope badly with new challenges.
Just wait and see ok players will adapt to the new features as always, sure some will cry and complain as always but others will just get on with it and enjoy the game.

I know i will enjoy developing new pvp skills its an awesome oppertunity but in order to accept it one only needs a healthy mindset that is not 'trapped' in the past.. L0L .
14.09.2010 19:16:53
Quote Post #28470582

 
Seymour Dria

Inhabitant of Aurea
Profession: Elder Druid
Level: 100

Mage of the Gity

Posts: 22
Why this isnt a good idea.

First: Trap is a differencial from tibia, its rare you see this in other games, and you see isnt good enough to compare with tibia traps, you cant walk in sqm where are a player or creature, this is the magic of the pvp in tibia if you remove that the pvp will be boring, dont will be related to skills anymore, who got more level and number of people will be the winner team in all battles, it wont be a smart game anymore please realease that, you are adding a non pvp thing, in pvp worlds, magic walls will be useless, you trap a player he just will swap places with you and you team.

Second: The main objective of knights in pvp is to be the shield of the team, and its magic, no one can touch the "weakers" ones because its impossible walk through the knights without kill them, now them will be useless, if u took skull you proably will die, because will be no "traps" anymore you only defense will be speed. The principal way to abuse is: you ask to friend attack you, you trap yourself with magicwalls, and you can swap position with anyplayer you want.

Third: HL knights will be imortal, during battles, you need a certain time to kill, will be impossible, if you trap him and remove vision of the healers, he will just swap places with enemies, till found a healer, its another way to broke pvp, make knights imortal during the battles.


Swap position its a TERRIBLE idea, will end with pvp, please dont do that.
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14.09.2010 20:38:49
Edited by Seymour Dria
on 14.09.2010 20:42:01
Quote Post #28471196

 
Thus Yena

Inhabitant of Julera
Profession: Master Sorcerer
Level: 202

Ruthless of the Holy Union

Posts: 63


Silly idea and it will probably lead to some unforseen game weakness abuse again....

Every update there is a new feature but it never works the way it should.
14.09.2010 21:45:45
Quote Post #28471843

 

Página 14:

Asallen Avelen

Inhabitant of Morgana
Profession: Druid
Level: 19

Posts: 82


Our whole vent (60 people) stands behind this and is looking forward to use it in battle against the currently PAing guild. Yes, it requires quick thinking and skill and that's exactly what we love. No more battles decided solely on the amounht of noobchars one side can bring
14.09.2010 21:53:16
Quote Post #28471891

 
Xero Kaos

Inhabitant of Neptera
Profession: Master Sorcerer
Level: 167

Leader of the Revolucion

Posts: 62


Aleppe most of the people will have the first reaction of seeing bad things of this change, so do I.

I agree a lot with Seymour Dria and his 3 points, those are the ones that I think too, and in the 3rd point not only knights also HL paladins, i saw it by my own eyes, a 300 rp inmortal in thais, just couple of sios ( he got away when he decide it).

So that's why you see many posts complaining and all you do is saying "test it" go "test the swap feature" but many people don't have an available team or the level or a knight or paladin to try it, so please i dont know if you, or in a good thread, EXPLAIN how does it work!! i mean not the "pvp trick" but how it is supposed to work, lets call them "the rules of swapping" idk.
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15.09.2010 09:27:55
Quote Post #28475181

 
Aleppe

Inhabitant of Nerana
Profession: Elder Druid
Level: 147

Posts: 5847


@ Xero Kaos:

You're welcome.

The 1st thing that one needs to note when talking about swaps, is that they come from a Focus Group discussion meant to find solutions to noobchars / 3rd part interferences in both skull/war system combats.

We have talked about different solutions: some couldn't be taken into consideration due to technical problems, others due to their possible abuses.

At the end of the 1st discussion, the main proposal to solve noobchars/3rd part interferences weren't swaps, but a feature called "knockout skull". Unfortunately it hasn't received the agreement of CIP's Gods due to its complicated nature, hence we were asked to try new ways.

Then Swaps appeared, and my 1st thought was: we are meant to find solutions just for noobchars/3rd part interferences, not to nerf all traps, given that a high level can't be fragged without trapping it, and I've fought against this feature until the private TS was released.

I've spent the first day of the private test alone multiclienteling several characters (allowed on TS), given that I had ranted vs best part of Focus Group for a long time (and not just about swaps): that was my luck. I could test this feature not being influenced by anybody thoughts / behaviours, like playing chess alone: my strategy vs my own strategy, nothing else.

These are some my notes of that day:
  • I use swaps more for aggressive purposes than for defensive ones (more with knight/pally)
  • I use mws mostly to trap myself than to trap the enemy
  • I use swaps to defend with mages and to attack with ek/rp
  • Must have some xxxxxxx (I won't spoil it here) in EK/RP bp. Always!!
  • Potion = swap delay
  • There is a problem for chars not being able to use MW or to summon: just leave a sqm near the victim in a narrow passage PPEVPP (player, player, empty, victim, player, player)
  • Stairs do not allow players to swap: just block somebody there with the team splitted up and downstairs and he's done. Do not enter buildings nor hunting grounds with stairs while hunted!
  • Ladders, pitfalls and holes work differently: downstairs one can swap. One-way holes are deadly!
  • If one fights back he's done: do not use soulfire/fields and attack just few targets in the same minute (2-3 max)
  • I can't swap if a player is xxxxxxxxxxx (I won't spoil it here)
  • I can change a HL stack with a noobchars one using swaps
  • Some NPCs can be used to trap people, eg thais east gate
  • xxxxxxxxxxx (I won't spoil it here) are traps! Do not use them while hunted!
  • Using any field below the char allows you to swap, and it allows you to swap until the condition is gone
  • Swapping can be used to mark the enemy with a white skull (still possible even with last patch, even if harder)
  • While trapped do not swap diagonal
  • If I swap with a char he can't swap back if not with a delay: narrow passages = death
During the next days I've found even more things about swaps, but I think that what I've written here is enough to put you on the right way.


Aleppe
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15.09.2010 10:59:53
Quote Post #28475443

 
Stonejaw the Brute

Inhabitant of Solera
Profession: Knight
Level: 23

Posts: 85


@ Xero Kaos
if the 300 rp 'got away' he is not immortal because immortal would meen he did not even need to try and escape from you .. In my opinion if your opponent runs away then you have won that battle.

@ Aleppe
I have a question for you , is it possable to swap out if the team of noob characters surrounding you has items under them eg empty flasks / coins to prevent them being pushed aside?

Also can you please explain the reason you made the point " If trapped dont swap diagonal " .. why?
15.09.2010 15:45:08
Edited by Stonejaw the Brute
on 15.09.2010 15:55:06
Quote Post #28476779

 
Aleppe

Inhabitant of Nerana
Profession: Elder Druid
Level: 147

Posts: 5847


Is it possable to swap out if the team of noob characters surrounding you has items under them eg empty flasks / coins to prevent them being pushed aside?

Those items do not do any difference: it doesn't matter if they have something below them. If they can be swapped they will be swapped in any case. Remember that if those chars are just blocking you without dealing any pvp damage, you've still the option to use a field (I prefer poison ones for obvious reasons) to activate swaps.

Nevertheless, there are particular situations in which those items below a trapping char can do the difference, but that's somthing you'll have to find by yourself


Aleppe
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15.09.2010 15:55:00
Edited by Aleppe
on 15.09.2010 15:58:27
Quote Post #28476829

 
Stonejaw the Brute

Inhabitant of Solera
Profession: Knight
Level: 23

Posts: 85


Ok thanks Aleppe , i edited my post and added another question just around the same time as you posted your reply so perhaps you did not see it .. I am wondering why you made the point about 'diagional' swapping not being a good idea if trapped , can i ask you to explain this please?
15.09.2010 16:03:31
Quote Post #28476884

 
Aleppe

Inhabitant of Nerana
Profession: Elder Druid
Level: 147

Posts: 5847


I am wondering why you made the point about 'diagional' swapping not being a good idea if trapped


The general rule is, if possible, never swap the character that your enemy thinks you'll swap and limit as much as possible any eventual delay: it could lead you to be marked by a white skull.

123
4V5
678

V = victim
numbers = trappers

If you swap 1-3-6-8 you may be affected (depending on your hardware, net, lags and your pvp skills) by several delays: diagonal movement + swapping + eventual potion, hence it will be easier for your enemies to use a trick to make you white skulled ( I did it 3 times today in Thais with people saying: wtf???? Why I'm skulled? I think that they haven't understood it yet )


Aleppe
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15.09.2010 16:19:13
Edited by Aleppe
on 15.09.2010 16:23:01
Quote Post #28477009

 
Death Raiser

Inhabitant of Premia
Profession: Master Sorcerer
Level: 91

Libamentum of the Incompertus Semino

Posts: 227


The swaps should be available after a longer period of time than 2 seconds. Trapping is one of the main "pvp" features of this game since no-item-hotkey pvp was removed.
In my opinion, this is taking away the experience of trapping as it does take skill to trap someone in a battle and is one of the only pvp unique features left, swapping should take more than 2 seconds, maybe also take some soul points. Let's say 3-5 seconds each swap and 3-10 soul points.
The test server isn't the best test scenario since everyone is fighting for themselves, and if one person gets a skull it's all on him to survive unless he has a team which not many of the testers had one. In a real battle people get trapped from time to time, it's avoided sometimes since it's a real battle and everyone is anxious and careful not to die or kill the enemy.
I hope you think about it, in my thought it's a great idea.

-DR
16.09.2010 01:50:27
Quote Post #28481183

 
Imortal Outlaw

Inhabitant of Inferna
Profession: Royal Paladin
Level: 149

Posts: 33


is this going to affect hardcore pvp ?

idk how this affects skull servers as i never played them

but this will completely ruin dolera / inferna and keep the current team of power in power forever.

it's quite a silly prospect. allowing for no more defenses etc. on hardcore pvp the enemy teams r so outnumbered. the smaller team of each has only the option to go defense sometimes. now what r they to do?

stay oppressed because there knight is now useless in defense

i vote NO on this feature guys. horrible addition to pvp. does nothing good for anyone. except allows a 150+ knight to be unkillable
16.09.2010 02:02:31
Quote Post #28481239

 
Soul Generator

Inhabitant of Inferna
Profession: Knight
Level: 59

Americanz of the English People

Posts: 468


Originally posted by Imortal Outlaw on 16.09.2010 02:02:31:
> is this going to affect hardcore pvp ?
>
> idk how this affects skull servers as i never played
> them
>
> but this will completely ruin dolera / inferna and
> keep the current team of power in power forever.
>
> it's quite a silly prospect. allowing for no more
> defenses etc. on hardcore pvp the enemy teams r so
> outnumbered. the smaller team of each has only the
> option to go defense sometimes. now what r they to
> do?
>
> stay oppressed because there knight is now useless in
> defense
>
> i vote NO on this feature guys. horrible addition to
> pvp. does nothing good for anyone. except allows a
> 150+ knight to be unkillable


completely agreed, do not implement this into hardcord pvp servers as it would ruin them completely.
________________
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16.09.2010 02:24:07
Quote Post #28481319

 
Ifran from mars

Inhabitant of Inferna
Profession: Elder Druid
Level: 27

Ifranovic of the English People

Posts: 654


This was one of the dumbest things i've EVER heard
________________
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16.09.2010 02:27:53
Quote Post #28481337

 
Mystic'Fury

Inhabitant of Amera
Profession: Elder Druid
Level: 115

Pride of the Seven Sins (Sloth)

Posts: 40


It's all balderdash. Lame things keep being put/brought up into the game and pvp gets worse all the time. Improve the actual game play and the real players don't have to suffer through a good game that descends in population and role-playing every year. Majority of players just want to do war and such. Bring something good to the tibia community instead of taking the community away.

For the swapping of positions, its lame and there are many ways for people to abuse and get around it.



---------
Mystic'Fury
________________

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16.09.2010 02:38:00
Quote Post #28481385

 
Reni Daver

Inhabitant of Danera
Profession: Druid
Level: 25

Posts: 1


I think the pvp system should remain as it currently stands, because if not players who kill someone or even cause a type of hunting among the players themselves would escape and be benefited very easy.

So I vote No.
16.09.2010 02:47:21
Quote Post #28481421

 
Noxuos

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Master Sorcerer
Level: 173

Loony of the Dancy Time (Unstoppable)

Posts: 65


Please do not continue to ruin the pvp aspect of this game.
16.09.2010 02:53:54
Quote Post #28481449

 
Heibow

Inhabitant of Ocera
Profession: Knight
Level: 66

Posts: 1
Thumbs down 

It will ruin the game with pvp again ...
think: you suffer a pk, or want to kill a pk, and you need to trap to kill him, as doing this?
16.09.2010 02:55:31
Quote Post #28481458

 
Teddy Xenix

Inhabitant of Inferna
Profession: Master Sorcerer
Level: 40

Swedenz of the English People (Nessy)

Posts: 56


Please do not implent these changes to pvp enfo, it will ruin the gameplay totally when fighting a war. We have it good and do not want any changes.
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16.09.2010 03:28:22
Quote Post #28481590

 
Nalumor

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Druid
Level: 11

Posts: 30


This shouldn't be implemented in any server.. if the trapped person has a brain hes virtually unkillable espescially knights.
16.09.2010 03:36:14
Quote Post #28481619

 
Homeem Passaroo

Inhabitant of Malvera
Profession: Paladin
Level: 38

Posts: 1


Please don't implement this on pvp hardcore servers!

In open pvp servers this is needed because people go with low level chars and trap, knowing that the enemies are scared to get red skull.

But in pvp enforced this is not needed to be implemented, once people are not scared to get red skull and it is one of the best things in the pvp enforced, people have to be smart to fight.

please do not ruin pvp hardcore servers implementing this

Do not implement this on pvp hardcore servers!

Thank you
16.09.2010 03:36:30
Quote Post #28481621

 
Rohons Rage

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Master Sorcerer
Level: 113

Legend of the Deadly

Posts: 284


Originally posted by Nalumor on 16.09.2010 03:36:14:
> This shouldn't be implemented in any server.. if the
> trapped person has a brain hes virtually unkillable
> espescially knights.
Agreed, its rediculous, its almost impossible to kill anyone higher level because they just swap out and run
16.09.2010 03:38:25
Quote Post #28481630

 
Anabolic Strenghtz

Inhabitant of Empera
Profession: Knight
Level: 26

Posts: 12


We should never forget that the best thing on Tibia is that one character have it's sqm and if the screen is crowded, nobody will walk.
That's all about the traps on pvp hardcore servers, servers made for pking.

please DO NOT implement this on pvp hardcore servers!
It would ruin the pvp skills and level 130+ knights would become unkillable.

People fight with their teams, trap with mwalls, trap using their keyboards walking until they reach and surround their enemies with their pvp skills.

This update would seriously RUIN the pvp.

please don't implement it on pvp hardcores!
16.09.2010 03:44:34
Edited by Anabolic Strenghtz
on 16.09.2010 03:45:15
Quote Post #28481654

 

Página 15:


Kingami

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Master Sorcerer
Level: 127

Member of the Fifth Sin

Posts: 70


PLEASE DO NOT IMPLEMENT THIS ON HARDCORE-PVP SERVERS!!
________________
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16.09.2010 03:45:05
Quote Post #28481656

 
Waterhorse Xenix

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Royal Paladin
Level: 161

Legend of the Deadly (Merlin)

Posts: 81


It was enough bringing normal blessings to pvp hardcore, we dont need another pvp blessing. Also the push thingy is ridicolous, if a war starts again on dolera a 230 ek would be unkillable, period, so please do not add this on hardcore pvp!
________________
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16.09.2010 03:46:02
Quote Post #28481661

 
Shiba bigk

Inhabitant of Inferna
Profession: Master Sorcerer
Level: 92

One of the Enlightenment (Iza)

Posts: 902


Do Not Implent This on hardcore PvP

thank you
16.09.2010 03:46:41
Quote Post #28481664

 
Guardakan

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Master Sorcerer
Level: 103

Legend of the Deadly

Posts: 544


please do not implement on pvp-enforced servers the swap-out. it is a useless feature considering that dolera/inferna defenses cnanot be made with a high lvl knight blocking a narrow passage due to the fact we can kill the knight, and that if we get trapped by low levels we can simply kill them in order to run away (if we dont manage to kill them because they are too high lvl than i guess you diserve to die ahah)


...... PLEASE, PLEASE listen to us this time...

we dont want the dynamics of our server's battles to take another big change (just like rune delay being changed, exp not being given after killing other players).

i know our pvp-e community is small (maybe a 1000 active players), but there is no need to treat us like we arent worth shit (thats what it seems to me with the past changes you guys made to our server, without listening on wether the players wanted or not that change), but do not make it smaller/worst than it actually is
16.09.2010 04:32:47
Edited by Guardakan
on 16.09.2010 10:25:28
Quote Post #28481875

 
Zibryn

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Elite Knight
Level: 65

Couper of the Torture

Posts: 23


Originally posted by Guardakan on 16.09.2010 04:32:47:
> please do not implement on pvp-enforced servers the
> swap-out. it is a useless feature considering that
> dolera/inferna defenses cnanot be made with a high
> lvl knight blocking a narrow passage due to the fact
> we can kill the knight, and that if we get
> trapped by low levels we can simply kill them in
> order to run away (if we dont manage to kill them
> because they are too high lvl than i guess you
> diserve to die ahah)
>
>
> ...... PLEASE, PLEASE listen to us this
> time
...
>
> we dont want the dynamics of our server's battles to
> take another big change (just like rune delay being
> changed, exp not being given after killing other
> players).
>
> i know our pvp-e community is small (maybe a
> 1000 active players), but there is no need to treat
> us like we arent worth shit (thats what it seems to
> me with the past changes you guys made to our server,
> without listening on wether the players wanted or not
> that change), but do not make it smaller/gayer
> than it actually is


could not be said better

do not apply this change on our server please.
16.09.2010 04:33:43
Quote Post #28481884

 
Violent Moonlight

Inhabitant of Premia
Profession: Elder Druid
Level: 184

Posts: 537


This will make "sneaks" more or less useless, means an underpowered
guild will have no chance to win at any way...
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16.09.2010 04:36:34
Quote Post #28481903

 
Xekoroth

Inhabitant of Malvera
Profession: Elder Druid
Level: 150

Posts: 622


really usefull and works fine on pvp server, but useless and breaking the game play on hardcore pvp in my opinion (signed an old pvp-e player that moved to a pvp server)
16.09.2010 04:39:58
Quote Post #28481926

 
Pegon Poxalis

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Master Sorcerer
Level: 98

Loony of the Dancy Time (Loco)

Posts: 273


Craban, you may not know about Dolera, but the one's posting in this thread are from both the winning and losing side of the war, and we both say no to these changes on our server.



Sincerly,


Dolera
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16.09.2010 05:55:31
Quote Post #28482197

 
Sharp Dressed Man

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Elder Druid
Level: 126

Funky of the Dancy Time (Beast Mode)

Posts: 871
Thumbs down 

I beg of you, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE do not implement this on hardcore PvP. PvP is defined solely by the ability to trap enemies, and the ability to avoid becoming trapped . There are NO upsides to swappy time and I promise you will never hear the end of it. I have enough trouble convincing some of my own team members to renew premium and help us in war. Several of them have assured me that this would be the final nail in the coffin.
________________
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16.09.2010 06:10:47
Edited by Sharp Dressed Man
on 16.09.2010 06:29:45
Quote Post #28482250

 
Enerugi

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Master Sorcerer
Level: 42

Wacky of the Dancy Time

Posts: 2
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!!!

DO NOT IMPLEMENT THIS ON PVP-E \ HARDCORE PVP SERVERS!!

It'll ruin whats left of Hardcore pvp !
16.09.2010 06:17:59
Quote Post #28482291

 
Justn

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Elite Knight
Level: 94

Zulu of the Malibu-Nam

Posts: 9
Thumbs down i vote no on swappy time!

leave dolera out of this!!!!!!!!!!!!
16.09.2010 06:45:18
Quote Post #28482446

 
Zable

Inhabitant of Honera
Profession: Elite Knight
Level: 91

Ifrits Finest of the Sacred Coven

Posts: 40
Thumbs down 

The whole idea of being able to swap with characters is an awful idea because this could be abused to get nights killed, and also being able to block characters on hardcore pvp worlds, and on optional pvp worlds is part of the game.
16.09.2010 06:46:01
Edited by Zable
on 16.09.2010 06:51:51
Quote Post #28482448

 
Fighting-Viking

Inhabitant of Secura
Profession: Elite Knight
Level: 138

Posts: 26
DO NOT PUT THIS ON HARDCORE SERVERS

Cip if you do this i dont know what i'll do, probably quit tibia in general, you ruined all the PVP servers dont ruin the hardcore, its called hardcore for a reason, I WAS IN VENORE ON TEST SERVER AND MY FRIEND A 83 ED WAS SIOING ME AND I WAS UHPING MY ARS OFF AND LET ME TELL YOU NO WAY IN HELL THEY WERE GOING TO KILL ME, Why you ask? BECAUSE YOU CANT TRAP PEOPLE what the hell is the point of PVP then?


IS THIS TIBIA AT ITS END?
________________
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16.09.2010 07:05:45
Quote Post #28482541

 
Gii Uribo

Inhabitant of Inferna
Profession: Master Sorcerer
Level: 90

One of the Enlightenment (Karim)

Posts: 775
Angry 

DEFINITELY NOT SIGNED!
________________
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16.09.2010 07:11:20
Quote Post #28482571

 
Jlock

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Druid
Level: 56

Posts: 469


no to this swapping thing on dolera.... simply ruins hardcore pvp.



-Jesse
16.09.2010 07:13:11
Quote Post #28482581

 
Howix

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Master Sorcerer
Level: 112

Loony of the Dancy Time

Posts: 555


No to swappy time.. I know plenty of people who will not renew premiums if this goes through on hardcore pvp servers. You matter as well delete Inferna and Dolera if this goes through for us.
________________
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16.09.2010 07:15:31
Quote Post #28482592

 
Scott Fargus

Inhabitant of Inferna
Profession: Master Sorcerer
Level: 35

Posts: 1
Roll Eyes 

LEAVE HARDCORE SERVERS ALONE. U JUST MAKE THEM WORSE AND WORSE EVERYTIME SO STOP. IF U WANNA CHANGE SOMETHING DO IT IN OPTIONAL/OPEN PVP.
PLEASE CIPSOFT LEAVE US ALONE. WE DONT LIKE CHANGE....

p.s.u get traped its ur own fault learn to play.
Might as well make it so u can switch spot with other chars at depo boxes to

I will also be one of these people that will not renew premmy time if this is implamented

NOT SIGNED
For A Better Tibia
16.09.2010 07:21:37
Edited by Scott Fargus
on 16.09.2010 07:45:02
Quote Post #28482614

 
Mizz Clicx

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Royal Paladin
Level: 63

Member of the Lost Life

Posts: 14
Exclamation 

Caraban you have to listen, the player cuz we know how we wanna play. we are diferent of other world so clipsoft has to change.clipsoft have to change what the player wants to change, we give you opinions and should be implemented. Hardcore pvp players, we made many complaints about the experience for killing a player of higher level and you would not listen. tibia players will continue to decline if this situation continues in this way, you listen to the player.



FROM DOLERA.
PVP ENFORCED.
16.09.2010 07:22:34
Quote Post #28482615

 
Dusty Starlight

Inhabitant of Inferna
Profession: Master Sorcerer
Level: 43

Posts: 104


Dolera 118
Inferna 61

and still, they come here saying that things should stay like they are. Bunch of botters and griefers wannabe.
________________
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16.09.2010 07:31:56
Quote Post #28482642

 
Phanzen

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Elder Druid
Level: 44

Unknown of the Deadly Academy

Posts: 19


DO NOT implement this on hardcore PvP servers

Removing the exp gain from player kills was a horrible idea, now this?

Not signed.
16.09.2010 07:40:52
Quote Post #28482671

 

Página 16:

Aleppe

Inhabitant of Nerana
Profession: Elder Druid
Level: 147

Posts: 5847


Originally posted by Dusty Starlight on 16.09.2010 07:31:56:
> Dolera 118
> Inferna 61
>
> and still, they come here saying that things should
> stay like they are. Bunch of botters and griefers
> wannabe.

x2
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16.09.2010 07:48:09
Quote Post #28482694

 
Vindictive Knight

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Elite Knight
Level: 105

Wacky of the Dancy Time

Posts: 9


We Do not need this or want this on dolera please listen thank you.
16.09.2010 07:52:48
Quote Post #28482715

 
Jedi Death Blade

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Royal Paladin
Level: 68

Genesis of the Pandemonium

Posts: 26


Whats the point of hardcore servers when you die you lose nothing.Gain NOTHING do not put this stuff on pvp-enf thank you!
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16.09.2010 07:54:21
Quote Post #28482718

 
Lobo Tico

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Elder Druid
Level: 68

Member of the Fifth Sin

Posts: 2
Dolera doesnt need, or want this.

Please stop making hardcore pvp, less and less ahrdcore and hard.

Its bad enough with the exp being taken away for pvp, DONT IMPLEMENT THIS ON DOLERA/INFERNA PLEASE!


HOW WILL WARS BE WON?SNEAK ATTACKS?
16.09.2010 07:59:10
Quote Post #28482728

 
Don Ponna

Inhabitant of Inferna
Profession: Knight
Level: 107

Posts: 83


Would be nice for me to be unkillable, but naah i dont see any fun in that. So i say no to this update on hardcore pvp
16.09.2010 08:09:44
Quote Post #28482765

 
Rhordii

Inhabitant of Inferna
Profession: Master Sorcerer
Level: 114

One of the Enlightenment (Ponna)

Posts: 226


I wont be standing in front of Almighty Danne in battles anymore haha xD, hell problaby rush into me and swap my place and make them othes behind him pump til my body hit the floor and then he just swaps back! aaaaah yea, he will be so unkillable
16.09.2010 08:15:05
Edited by Rhordii
on 16.09.2010 08:15:18
Quote Post #28482787

 
Master Fort

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Master Sorcerer
Level: 104

Wacky of the Dancy Time

Posts: 37


No... i dont agree its going to ruin pvp..


~Not signed.
16.09.2010 08:23:19
Quote Post #28482819

 
Thymage

Inhabitant of Amera
Profession: Elder Druid
Level: 127

Mercenary of the Silent Core (Dixon)

Posts: 171


Not signed i dont agree with this update its going to ruin the rest of this game...


~NOT SIGNED

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~NOT SIGNED

~NOT SIGNED

~NOT SIGNED

~NOT SIGNED

~NOT SIGNED

~NOT SIGNED

~NOT SIGNED

~NOT SIGNED

~NOT SIGNED

~NOT SIGNED

~NOT SIGNED

~NOT SIGNED

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~NOT SIGNED

~NOT SIGNED

~NOT SIGNED
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16.09.2010 08:24:41
Quote Post #28482822

 
Tiky Oran

Inhabitant of Inferna
Profession: Master Sorcerer
Level: 87

One of the Enlightenment (Artur)

Posts: 300


PLEASE DO NOT IMPLEMENT THIS ON HARDCORE-PVP SERVERS.
________________
Encourage Hardcore PvP!
Reward PVP
16.09.2010 08:27:06
Quote Post #28482831

 
Oreliuss

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Master Sorcerer
Level: 51

Genesis of the Pandemonium

Posts: 8
Thumbs down Please don't implement

Please do not implement this on hardcore PVP servers, as it will ruin a large PVP aspect of our gameplay. Please do not implement for Dolera and Inferna. A lot of players there do not want this so please again.
16.09.2010 08:35:57
Quote Post #28482855

 
Linkirvana

Inhabitant of Libera
Profession: Paladin
Level: 29

Posts: 696


Originally posted by Oreliuss on 16.09.2010 08:35:57:
> Please do not implement this on hardcore PVP servers,
> as it will ruin a large PVP aspect of our gameplay.
> Please do not implement for Dolera and Inferna. A
> lot of players there do not want this so please
> again.

All you guys can say is "it will ruin pvp"

Is that Doleran for "plx no our bot might not be as effective"?

Just saying you disagree is worth jackshit, 0, nada, NOTHING if you don't back it up with atleast some sort of rational argument.
________________
I've got something to say!

I killed your baby today!

It doesn't matter much to me, as long as it's fuckin' dead!
16.09.2010 08:42:51
Quote Post #28482869

 
Aleppe

Inhabitant of Nerana
Profession: Elder Druid
Level: 147

Posts: 5847


No, no, Linkirvana!
They obtained something! I've just remembered what I had to post about hardcore pvp servers in pvp blessing / fair fight rules threads!

Thx guys


Aleppe
________________
INFLICTING PAIN ON GRIEFERS
PVP BLESSING
LIMIT CONTAINERS CAP!
§OLD ACCOUNTS§ Ancients power
16.09.2010 09:09:49
Quote Post #28482961

 
Soneex

Inhabitant of Inferna
Profession: Paladin
Level: 27

Posts: 54


Please do not implement this on hardcore PVP servers
16.09.2010 09:45:01
Quote Post #28483059

 
Pyatt

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Royal Paladin
Level: 79

Ruthless of the Deadly

Posts: 1


please do not put in pvp-e.

ty
16.09.2010 10:13:49
Quote Post #28483125

 
Raspoutine

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Elder Druid
Level: 44

Posts: 18


i just hope you guys (cip) realise that the 20 pages of signatures against the implementation of this swap-out signature on PVP-e represent the WHOLE POPULATION of the pvp-enforced servers... NOBODY ON IT WANT THAT.


hope you listen to us... this time for once...
16.09.2010 10:15:04
Quote Post #28483132

 
Aleppe

Inhabitant of Nerana
Profession: Elder Druid
Level: 147

Posts: 5847


Originally posted by Raspoutine on 16.09.2010 10:15:04:
> i just hope you guys (cip) realise that the 20 pages
> of signatures against the implementation of this
> swap-out signature on PVP-e represent the WHOLE
> POPULATION of the pvp-enforced servers... NOBODY ON
> IT WANT THAT.
>
>
> hope you listen to us... this time for once...


Mind to tell me just one reason to listen to players complaints given that Hardcore pvp servers are dead servers and that who's complaining here are right those who want to keep things like they are now?


Aleppe
________________
INFLICTING PAIN ON GRIEFERS
PVP BLESSING
LIMIT CONTAINERS CAP!
§OLD ACCOUNTS§ Ancients power
16.09.2010 10:24:10
Quote Post #28483176

 
Gwazi

Inhabitant of Malvera
Profession: Royal Paladin
Level: 106

Posts: 59


Originally posted by Sharp Dressed Man on 16.09.2010 06:10:47:
> I beg of you, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE do not implement
> this on hardcore PvP. PvP is defined solely by
> the ability to trap enemies, and the ability to avoid
> becoming trapped . There are NO upsides to swappy
> time and I promise you will never hear the end of it.
> I have enough trouble convincing some of my own team
> members to renew premium and help us in war. Several
> of them have assured me that this would be the final
> nail in the coffin.


nicely said my brother :*

i miss dolera.

former world : dolera

and i can tell one thing... iw ouldnt ever try to play dolera again if that was implemented ahah
16.09.2010 10:26:27
Quote Post #28483182

 
Melodeouz

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Elder Druid
Level: 31

Posts: 1





doesnt sound like a fun update....... lol


not signed


it is a useless feature what will change the dynamics of all pvp-e wars/battles ... and not in a good/happy way.
16.09.2010 10:27:24
Edited by Melodeouz
on 16.09.2010 10:27:39
Quote Post #28483186

 
Guardakan

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Master Sorcerer
Level: 103

Legend of the Deadly

Posts: 544


Originally posted by Aleppe on 16.09.2010 10:24:10:
> Originally posted by Raspoutine on 16.09.2010
> 10:15:04
:
> > i just hope you guys (cip) realise that the 20
> pages
> > of signatures against the implementation of this
> > swap-out signature on PVP-e represent the WHOLE
> > POPULATION of the pvp-enforced servers... NOBODY
> ON
> > IT WANT THAT.
> >
> >
> > hope you listen to us... this time for once...
>
>
> Mind to tell me just one reason to listen to players
> complaints given that Hardcore pvp servers are dead
> servers and that who's complaining here are right
> those who want to keep things like they are now?
>
>
> Aleppe


PVP-E ARE NOT DEAD SERVERS LOL.

the only reason pvp-e servers have only ~200 ppl online at all time is not because of the pvp aspect... ppl playing it like the pvp. its only that ppl do not see the motivation/courage to go on a pvp-e and try to actually lvl without contacts on the server. they just see this like impossible, they dont even try. and for the ones who try, they just give up after 2 or 3 deaths.... they want things too easy..... hardcore pvp..... thats why not too many players play it... its hard, to hard for them

come play on our server before to go even say a word about it please.
16.09.2010 10:32:02
Quote Post #28483204

 
Athraz

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Elite Knight
Level: 128

Legend of the Pandemonium

Posts: 48


-not signed update. this is not necessary on dolera and will just advantage high lvls who could escape any trap and run open field (ank desert for example) without giving any chance to lower lvls to kill him.
16.09.2010 10:36:23
Quote Post #28483225

 

Página 17:

Archman of Death

Inhabitant of Calmera
Profession: Royal Paladin
Level: 99

Posts: 10


i play optional pvp but i say is no need in hardcore for this. no need be genius to see.
16.09.2010 10:37:15
Quote Post #28483228

 
Califourchon

Inhabitant of Malvera
Profession: Knight
Level: 28

Posts: 4


Originally posted by Aleppe on 16.09.2010 07:48:09:
> Originally posted by Dusty Starlight on 16.09.2010
> 07:31:56
:
> > Dolera 118
> > Inferna 61
> >
> > and still, they come here saying that things
> should
> > stay like they are. Bunch of botters and griefers
> > wannabe.
>
> x2


the reason we dont have alot of players is the opposite of what you just said it is... botters get killed alot on dolera, which reduces the ammount of cheaters and therefore only players that actually do play are online at all moments... and not afk characters of cheaters like its the case on pvp servers, where when you go to a spawn there's a lvl 200 ek that doesnt even answer you for the whole day

(i do not support cheating in any form.)

//got deleted on my main for not logging in for 2 years LOL but if i ever played again it would definitely not be with such a bad feature
________________
signed, hullong's post character :*
16.09.2010 10:38:48
Quote Post #28483232

 
Aleppe

Inhabitant of Nerana
Profession: Elder Druid
Level: 147

Posts: 5847


Keep it short guys: do you agree to add repeated deaths reductions for the Twist of fate and fair fight rules in hardcore servers?

If yes, I'll join my voice to yours about swaps.
If not, feel free to get lost.


Aleppe
________________
INFLICTING PAIN ON GRIEFERS
PVP BLESSING
LIMIT CONTAINERS CAP!
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16.09.2010 10:45:52
Quote Post #28483264

 
Ziolyk

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Elite Knight
Level: 109

Frapper of the Torture (Desirae)

Posts: 3


Originally posted by Aleppe on 16.09.2010 10:24:10:
> Originally posted by Raspoutine on 16.09.2010
> 10:15:04
:
> > i just hope you guys (cip) realise that the 20
> pages
> > of signatures against the implementation of this
> > swap-out signature on PVP-e represent the WHOLE
> > POPULATION of the pvp-enforced servers... NOBODY
> ON
> > IT WANT THAT.
> >
> >
> > hope you listen to us... this time for once...
>
>
> Mind to tell me just one reason to listen to players
> complaints given that Hardcore pvp servers are dead
> servers and that who's complaining here are right
> those who want to keep things like they are now?
>
>
> Aleppe

i dont see how a swap-out, that will affect gameplay, pvp in close fights (city battles) will make more players play hardcore pvp. lol...



or maybe yes, i see how now :::::

all pvp-e players quit and new players can play hardcore pvp. this is how right???

-not signed




on a side note ::: the swap-out does not do what it's meant to do. you are supposed to be able to escape from being traped by low lvls (lvl 200s traped by lvl 8s free accounts trapping him for their lvl 150s friends to come kill the traped lvl 200). lvl 8s will never attack the guy they trap, and therefore you do not fix the problem in any matter. if you want your swap out to be effective, you must be able to swap out at any moment, regardless of if you are being attacked or not, and regardless of if you are fully traped or not.

right now the way its made only leads to one thing :::

lets say player A is a power abuser lvl 300 that alot of friends, lvl 80s (group of players B), want to kill for their own personal justice.

player A gets traped by group B, player A swaps out with one of the guys that trapped him and run in ank desert... group B can never catch player A and in the matter of a few minutes all the lvl 300's friends of player A are killing group B, who was fighting for justice.

OR

a player of group B gets traped by lvl 8's, friends of player A. the lvl 8's do not attack player B because he could swap out. player B stands there and wait... just like without any swap out. player A arrives with all his friends and kill player B. swap out did not save player B.
16.09.2010 10:47:30
Quote Post #28483273

 
Guardakan

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Master Sorcerer
Level: 103

Legend of the Deadly

Posts: 544


Originally posted by Aleppe on 16.09.2010 10:45:52:
> Keep it short guys: do you agree to add repeated
> deaths
reductions for the Twist of fate and fair
> fight rules in hardcore servers?
>
> If yes, I'll join my voice to yours about swaps.
> If not, feel free to get lost.
>
>
> Aleppe


every1 agrees with the twist of fate and reduction of death penalties, this will make more players be able to play and eventually get to somewhere on dolera without willing to quit after 2 deaths their first day.

but i do not see in any way how swap out will help growing dolera population. it just messes up the gameplay and has no interest for us (in a way it is useless, unnecessary.)

we can just kill whoever traps us. if low levels trap me i either kill them and get away or wait till i die.

if high levels trap me than i die. this is part of what is called "PVP", which is the skills at the game. trap people and not get trapped, thats what tibia is and thats how we love it.

PS: craban, its not like only half of the pvp-e population wanted not to have this feature. both sides of both servers agree that this is unnecessary and will hurt the gameplay in a negative way, making it too easy to escape traps and only advantaging high levels (since we cannot trap nobody, its whoever runs the fastest survives/kill, since he can just outrun whoever wants to kill him and catch anybody he wants to kill)
16.09.2010 10:49:49
Edited by Guardakan
on 16.09.2010 10:55:05
Quote Post #28483285

 
Raspoutine

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Elder Druid
Level: 44

Posts: 18


Originally posted by Aleppe on 16.09.2010 09:09:49:
> No, no, Linkirvana!
> They obtained something! I've just remembered what I
> had to post about hardcore pvp servers in pvp
> blessing / fair fight rules threads!
>
> Thx guys
>
>
> Aleppe

what's that lol, you're trying to sabotage pvp-e gameplay or what??? just be against pvp-e players' opinions anywhat it is??? lol.
16.09.2010 10:50:56
Quote Post #28483295

 
Aleppe

Inhabitant of Nerana
Profession: Elder Druid
Level: 147

Posts: 5847


I've already told you to keep it short: yes or no to further repeated pvp deaths protections for hardcore servers?


Aleppe
________________
INFLICTING PAIN ON GRIEFERS
PVP BLESSING
LIMIT CONTAINERS CAP!
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16.09.2010 10:53:04
Quote Post #28483304

 
Guardakan

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Master Sorcerer
Level: 103

Legend of the Deadly

Posts: 544


Originally posted by Aleppe on 16.09.2010 10:53:04:
> I've already told you to keep it short: yes or no to
> further repeated pvp deaths protections for
> hardcore servers?
>
>
> Aleppe

lol. personnaly i agree with deaths protection if you mean it in a way we lose less when we die.

all im saying is: i think the fair fight rules will be very good for new players on dolera. they just get killed alot by some high levels who only like to kill anywho is in their way without any motive, and with this rule they will barely lose anything... a few minutes of lvling in thais sewers that is.
16.09.2010 10:57:12
Quote Post #28483322

 
Aleppe

Inhabitant of Nerana
Profession: Elder Druid
Level: 147

Posts: 5847


Guardakan, your attitude is the one I like most, and I've no doubt saying that I'd would like to have you in the Focus Group discussion.

The point is : do ut des (give to be given)

This is how the Focus Group worked and still works:

Don't you want swaps in Hardcore?
There must be a Counterweight


Aleppe
________________
INFLICTING PAIN ON GRIEFERS
PVP BLESSING
LIMIT CONTAINERS CAP!
§OLD ACCOUNTS§ Ancients power
16.09.2010 11:03:40
Quote Post #28483365

 
Guardakan

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Master Sorcerer
Level: 103

Legend of the Deadly

Posts: 544


Originally posted by Aleppe on 16.09.2010 11:03:40:
> Guardakan, your attitude is the one I like most, and
> I've no doubt saying that I'd would like to have you
> in the Focus Group discussion.
>
> The point is : do ut des (give to be given)
>
> This is how the Focus Group worked and still works:
>
> Don't you want swaps in Hardcore?
> There must be a Counterweight
>
>
> Aleppe

when i talk about it ingame to my war enemies (most of em are very friendly u know i have nice talk with alot of em very often), or in ventrilo with my allies, i did not meet ANYBODY that was against the reduction of death penalty. but neither did i meet anybody that was for the swap out. just hit youtube and look "dolera war". (dunno if u ever saw) the dynamics of dolera wars are always in close battle situations, where trapping is the main weapon used by BOTH TEAMS. it'd be a huge change in the gameplay, a hard change. and thats what people do not like

if u needed some1 that plays hardcore pvp actively on that focus group i would be down for a ride for sure. just hit me up on dolera (dunno if you're the one that chooses or anything but ye). i have plenty of time these days XD made over twice the work every week at my job during the summer to get 2 months vacation eheh


edit ::;

all im saying is, you want more players on pvp-e, i want more players on pvp-e

but new players gotta be low levels, and since this is hardcore pvp, they will be asked to fight at a time or another. and as new players of dolera,they will be low levels facing high levels all the time. if they want a chance to survive on such a "hard" server, they need tools to fight back these high levels. the only tool they got is teaming up with other low levels and trap the high level to kill him. trying to outrun him results in a fail, and adding swap out only leads to one thing... the high level running away every single time.
16.09.2010 11:13:15
Edited by Guardakan
on 16.09.2010 11:16:32
Quote Post #28483425

 
Linkirvana

Inhabitant of Libera
Profession: Paladin
Level: 29

Posts: 696


Originally posted by Guardakan on 16.09.2010 11:13:15:
>
> when i talk about it ingame to my war enemies (most
> of em are very friendly u know i have nice talk
> with alot of em very often), or in ventrilo with my
> allies, i did not meet ANYBODY that was against the
> reduction of death penalty. but neither did i meet
> anybody that was for the swap out. just hit youtube
> and look "dolera war". (dunno if u ever saw) the
> dynamics of dolera wars are always in close battle
> situations, where trapping is the main weapon used by
> BOTH TEAMS. it'd be a huge change in the gameplay, a
> hard change. and thats what people do not like

Your first argument is invalid for the simple fact that Dolera is full of die hard power hungry kids (the worst kind) who will literally say or do anything to stay on top.

I have seen many Dolera battles, and the dynamic I've seen mostly is run towards enemies, EKs throw a few mwalls here and there, the rest combo bot your enemy to shit.

> if u needed some1 that plays hardcore pvp actively on
> that focus group i would be down for a ride for sure.
> just hit me up on dolera (dunno if you're the one
> that chooses or anything but ye). i have plenty of
> time these days XD made over twice the work every
> week at my job during the summer to get 2 months
> vacation eheh
>
>
> edit ::;
>
> all im saying is, you want more players on pvp-e, i
> want more players on pvp-e
>
> but new players gotta be low levels, and since this
> is hardcore pvp, they will be asked to fight at a
> time or another. and as new players of dolera,they
> will be low levels facing high levels all the time.
> if they want a chance to survive on such a "hard"
> server, they need tools to fight back these high
> levels. the only tool they got is teaming up with
> other low levels and trap the high level to kill him.
> trying to outrun him results in a fail, and adding
> swap out only leads to one thing... the high level
> running away every single time.

Yeah but that's the thing - I think we can all agree that trapping someone without any form of escape until he burns all his supplies is simply lame - if this is not the case you seem to forget that he still needs to swap himself out of a place.

Which is not that simple either (I still haven't bothered to try out myself, so mind you I base this on simply what I heard) atleast if you have the firepower to take him down rather quickly (Which you do, if he can heal up you'd have to trap him until he's out of supplies, which I think is lame and should be removed)

Like Aleppe is saying if you remove the swapping on pvp-e we're stuck with the problem of being able to trap someone without any escape possible, so come up with something better if you can.

Giving the high levels a slight possibility to escape is a small price to pay in my opinion, considering how there's still plenty of ways to keep someone trapped.
________________
I've got something to say!

I killed your baby today!

It doesn't matter much to me, as long as it's fuckin' dead!
16.09.2010 12:08:22
Quote Post #28483685

 
Sharp Dressed Man

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Elder Druid
Level: 126

Funky of the Dancy Time (Beast Mode)

Posts: 871


Originally posted by Aleppe on 16.09.2010 07:48:09:
> Originally posted by Dusty Starlight on 16.09.2010
> 07:31:56:
> > Dolera 118
> > Inferna 61
> >
> > and still, they come here saying that things
> should
> > stay like they are. Bunch of botters and griefers
> > wannabe.
>
> x2

Similarities to other server types, not the lack thereof, are the reasons for the decrease in our servers populations(players, not bots). The addition of blessings, and the removal of experience and shorter rune delay are prime examples. The less differences we have from other server types, the less reasons people have to bother playing here.

The solution is simple: add swapping on PvP worlds ONLY. The players who would like to play without swapping, have one more reason to come play Hardcore PvP.

edit@ Linkirvana:
There are only two "sides" on Dolera. Mine does not use a combo bot.
________________
- Your friendly neighborhood Sharp Dressed Man

Encourage Hardcore PvP!
Say NO to Swappy Time!
16.09.2010 12:13:10
Edited by Sharp Dressed Man
on 16.09.2010 14:56:04
Quote Post #28483708

 
Mira Trin

Inhabitant of Shanera
Profession: Sorcerer
Level: 44

Posts: 353


add if u want, but not on hardcore pvp, u ruined 90% good thing so far, dont ruin the last 10% please
________________
No more misleading thread titles please!

/Pawel
16.09.2010 13:54:17
Quote Post #28484239

 
Angel Mosiah

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Elder Druid
Level: 32

Posts: 6


Originally posted by Aleppe on 16.09.2010 07:48:09:
> Originally posted by Dusty Starlight on 16.09.2010
> 07:31:56
:
> > Dolera 118
> > Inferna 61
> >
> > and still, they come here saying that things
> should
> > stay like they are. Bunch of botters and griefers
> > wannabe.
>
> x2

Who else is tired of this aleppe character always putting in on in conversations he has no real knowledge of. Aleppe needs to concern himself with what he knows about instead of involving himself in everyone elses business
16.09.2010 14:22:51
Quote Post #28484393

 
Pegon Poxalis

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Master Sorcerer
Level: 98

Loony of the Dancy Time (Loco)

Posts: 273


Originally posted by Aleppe on 16.09.2010 10:24:10:
> Originally posted by Raspoutine on 16.09.2010
> 10:15:04
:
> > i just hope you guys (cip) realise that the 20
> pages
> > of signatures against the implementation of this
> > swap-out signature on PVP-e represent the WHOLE
> > POPULATION of the pvp-enforced servers... NOBODY
> ON
> > IT WANT THAT.
> >
> >
> > hope you listen to us... this time for once...
>
>
> Mind to tell me just one reason to listen to players
> complaints given that Hardcore pvp servers are dead
> servers and that who's complaining here are right
> those who want to keep things like they are now?
>
>
> Aleppe

Alright, Mister Aleppe, you want a logical arguement against this? I'll go ahead and hit every base of these changes at once.

Starting with the easy one: Feature: PvP-Blessing, with this intact, the side that has the larger number of players on it will undoubtedy win battles from now on, how hard is it to carry an extra 150k on you and just continue running out to the battle field fighting every time you die. The blessings aren't hard to get to, and the fair fight rule lowers the pvp loss to rediculous levels. I.E. yesterday a team of us doleran players numbering only around 10 people highest level of 150 average of about 110 were killing these level 200-250 MS's after 13 DEATHS, they had only lost 5 levels and if this was real tibia approximently 130k before supplies. Now sure we get the bonus of Fair Fight and PvP Blessings as well, but the winning side is typiclly higher leveled and the Fair Fight rules aren't working in their current implementation on the PVP test, they're way too strong even when being killed by lower levels.


Feature: PZ On Demand The removal of this hurts small teams across the board, I can understand how it was unfair to create PZs anywhere on the map, but allowing stack cannons on PvP-E will make the server unplayable. Before they implemented the change it was not unlikely to see these in any town on any day 1 hitting anything that walked pass, there is no kill limit and no penatly for excessive killing, even with fair fight rules/pvp blessings getting headshot, IS. NOT. FUN.

Feature: Swapping Position If Trapped This one is a bit more complicated for me as I have not fully explored it's features, but from the time me and my team spent on the Test Server, as well as the other team on Dolera (the one's who control the server) we've both concluded this system is just horrendous, its taking a huge blow into what remains of tibia's unique pvp atmosphere. Trapping is necessary for both the losing teams and the winning teams, neither team benefits from not being able to kill the other, this is player verus player enforced, not player vs player escape. Trapping allows the underdogs to actually kill people who outlevel them instead of making them into immortal God's.


Conclusion, these changes, while maybe they're needed on open-pvp, I can not comment as I do not play there, are definetly not postive for PvP-Eservers.


Also Aleppe, I know this is a cliche'd and weak arguement, but please keep your opinions to non-pvp while posting on a non-pvp character, as I based off your "knowledge" of OUR servers (dolera/inferna) I can almost guaruntee you have either never played them or have never been a signficant part of either of our communities or if you have it was long enough ago that your speculations about our playstyle is outdated or incorrect.


Sincerly,



Dolera



P.S. I welcome a reponse from you addressing my points, I'd also welcome you to prove me wrong regarding you having no/little first hand knowledge of our servers.
________________
Dear World,

I have the internet and a keyboard so you have to listen to me
16.09.2010 14:48:14
Edited by Pegon Poxalis
on 16.09.2010 14:50:02
Quote Post #28484532

 
Pegon Poxalis

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Master Sorcerer
Level: 98

Loony of the Dancy Time (Loco)

Posts: 273


Originally posted by Guardakan on 16.09.2010 11:13:15:
> Originally posted by Aleppe on 16.09.2010
> 11:03:40
:
> > Guardakan, your attitude is the one I like most,
> and
> > I've no doubt saying that I'd would like to have
> you
> > in the Focus Group discussion.
> >
> > The point is : do ut des (give to be given)
> >
> > This is how the Focus Group worked and still
> works:
> >
> > Don't you want swaps in Hardcore?
> > There must be a Counterweight
> >
> >
> > Aleppe
>
> when i talk about it ingame to my war enemies (most
> of em are very friendly u know i have nice talk
> with alot of em very often), or in ventrilo with my
> allies, i did not meet ANYBODY that was against the
> reduction of death penalty. but neither did i meet
> anybody that was for the swap out. just hit youtube
> and look "dolera war". (dunno if u ever saw) the
> dynamics of dolera wars are always in close battle
> situations, where trapping is the main weapon used by
> BOTH TEAMS. it'd be a huge change in the gameplay, a
> hard change. and thats what people do not like
>
> if u needed some1 that plays hardcore pvp actively on
> that focus group i would be down for a ride for sure.
> just hit me up on dolera (dunno if you're the one
> that chooses or anything but ye). i have plenty of
> time these days XD made over twice the work every
> week at my job during the summer to get 2 months
> vacation eheh
>
>
> edit ::;
>
> all im saying is, you want more players on pvp-e, i
> want more players on pvp-e
>
> but new players gotta be low levels, and since this
> is hardcore pvp, they will be asked to fight at a
> time or another. and as new players of dolera,they
> will be low levels facing high levels all the time.
> if they want a chance to survive on such a "hard"
> server, they need tools to fight back these high
> levels. the only tool they got is teaming up with
> other low levels and trap the high level to kill him.
> trying to outrun him results in a fail, and adding
> swap out only leads to one thing... the high level
> running away every single time.

Max, I was with you at first on the death reduction, but it's way too strong, come in vent later I'll tell you about it
________________
Dear World,

I have the internet and a keyboard so you have to listen to me
16.09.2010 14:57:04
Quote Post #28484571

 
Nymet

Inhabitant of Shanera
Profession: Paladin
Level: 56

Badger of Legend of the Republic of the Badgers (Master Platypus)

Posts: 767


Aleppe your still talking about that darn PvP repeated death junk? I'v already told you again and again it isn't a problem and again and again I have shown why. Ill simply repeat myself here, It isn't necessary end of statement, im not going to write another essay as to why, again.
________________
As the old saying goes... "Fifty NO's and one YES means YES!"
16.09.2010 15:04:16
Quote Post #28484612

 
Aleppe

Inhabitant of Nerana
Profession: Elder Druid
Level: 147

Posts: 5847


@ Pegon ~:

P.S. I welcome a reponse from you addressing my points, I'd also welcome you to prove me wrong regarding you having no/little first hand knowledge of our servers

To put things in their proper order: when it comes to talk about any kind of pvp environment with me, the only one who has to prove something is you, since what I had to show I've already showed through years in all servers kinds like I did when I've done the 1st POI on a PVP-E server years ago (old JS - Inferna).

When you talk with me you need to calm down and to keep in mind that there is nothing you're going to say that will surprise me, but that it may happen the contrary. The fact that I post with this char is my own business, and I don't give a beloved... cookie if it hurts you. Got the point big mouth?

This said:


The blessings aren't hard to get to, and the fair fight rule lowers the pvp loss to rediculous levels

There is no FAIR player not having cash trouble in Hardocre pvp servers. Also, FFrs apply just in case of unbalanced fights and, to give you an example Mr. big mouth, a lv 100 needs to be fragged by lv 500 killers (sum of all levels) to benefit of the max reduction. So what?

PZ On Demand The removal of this hurts small teams

Yes, and that's why I would have preferred just the 1st 8 players in stack being able to deal pvp damages, or to make all players in stacks able to deal pvp damages within the same stack and even less players able to deal pvp damage out of it. I've witten all this over 2 months ago in FOcus Group discussion and even few days ago in this same board. So what?


Trapping allows the underdogs to actually kill people who outlevel them instead of making them into immortal God's.

Traps are still possible, and even on large scale. Do not blame me if you've not got the time to test swaps or if you haven't enough pvp skills to do so.


Also Aleppe, I know this is a cliche'd and weak arguement, but please keep your opinions to non-pvp while posting on a non-pvp character

No. So what? Will you cry, puppy?
You're not even able o understand that one can post from an Optional PVp char o from a noobchar for infinite different reasons, but still you want to show to be able o udnerstand how tune PVP features. LMAO.

Last but not least: come back when you'll have enabled your comprehension rate on acceptable levels.


Aleppe
________________
INFLICTING PAIN ON GRIEFERS
PVP BLESSING
LIMIT CONTAINERS CAP!
§OLD ACCOUNTS§ Ancients power
16.09.2010 15:10:53
Quote Post #28484657

 
Crazefang

Inhabitant of Inferna
Profession: Master Sorcerer
Level: 90

Leader of the Commilites

Posts: 734


I do not care about any option given here, but for once, please let our hardcore-pvp-server-players decide about our own server instead of let some guy who is playing open or optional pvp decide what is gonna happen to hardcore pvp servers? Everyone who plays hardcore pvp is satisfied with the way things are now, I can understand if optional/open pvp servers need a change, but please do not change the hardcore pvp servers cause trust me, no one wants it to be changed, especially not because some guys who aren't even playing the same server type think so.
16.09.2010 15:28:22
Quote Post #28484736

 
Alecto Misc

Inhabitant of Danubia
Profession: Knight
Level: 17

Posts: 2198


I have taken some time to examine the issue of swaps on pvp-e.

The dynamics on pvp-e are much different that pvp servers. On pvp-e the higher level can just kill the "noob" that is blocking him. If needed the high level can even use area spells, as his only "worry" would be in dealing damage to a friend, if he has a friend in the area at the time.

This is something that can NOT be done on a pvp server. You can't attack those noobs, because then you get a skull, and the pk team would just kill the noobs so you get a fast red or black skull, which makes your losses much worse.

You can't use an area spell for the same reason. It would be just pure suicide and cause you a lot of harm with a red or black skull.

The swap feature was designed primarily for pvp servers.

I can see where the swap rules would be to the disadvantage of the dynamics of the pvp-e server. Especially the rule about not being able to swap with someone you attacked first. This would be a huge game change to the philosophy of how pvp-e servers work.

IMHO, putting the swap on pvp-e servers needs to be reconsidered. I would suggest a further debate on it, and IMHO at this time I would have to lean towards not putting the swap feature on pvp-e.

---------------

Death cost on pvp-e.

IMHO due to the dynamics of how a low level can be killed at any time, with no consequence at all to the high level or gang, I really don't see how blessings, not even the cost of the pvp blessing could be afforded on the pvp-e servers.

On the TS I spent a fortune on the pvp blessing in just a few short days on low/mid level chars. The only way I could afford those blessings was due to the TS assistant handing out wealth by the bucket load! I can not imagine being killed in a similar manner and being able to afford it as a low to mid level char.

So I think that for new players to pvp-e even with FFR and pvp-blessing (which they can't afford to begin with) the cost is still too high and you won't see new players be able to overcome this problem.
16.09.2010 16:02:55
Quote Post #28484924

 

Página 18:

Sir

Inhabitant of Inferna
Profession: Druid
Level: 23

Posts: 1


plis dont put this in pvp-e.
Knights and paladins are will inmortals.
5 mages lvl 200 can't kill paladin lvl 200.
Now with this 10 mages lvl 200 can't kill paladin lvl 200.
And mages with utamo in a war are very dificult kill.

I think is good idea if u can changing position only if dont have parcel, fire.. in they position
16.09.2010 17:01:25
Quote Post #28485291

 
Rocket Warrior

Inhabitant of Inferna
Profession: Royal Paladin
Level: 120

One of the Enlightenment (Danny)

Posts: 90


Please dont put this feature in hardcore pvp we dont want it at all,

dont let the optional pvpers decide what happens to the server we play on.

We dont have a problem with noob characters its simply not needed
16.09.2010 18:00:17
Quote Post #28485691

 
Death Raiser

Inhabitant of Premia
Profession: Master Sorcerer
Level: 91

Libamentum of the Incompertus Semino

Posts: 227


Not only on Hardcore pvp, on ALL the servers it's the same so I don't agree with this feature AT ALL. But if it's added take in mind my other post.

Not Signed!

-DR
16.09.2010 18:09:52
Quote Post #28485778

 
Cuttah

Inhabitant of Inferna
Profession: Elite Knight
Level: 160

One of the Enlightenment (Ian)

Posts: 286


DO NOT implement this on hardcore PvP servers.
16.09.2010 18:26:30
Quote Post #28485926

 
Taure

Inhabitant of Elysia
Profession: Elite Knight
Level: 237

Heart of the Rapture (Math Major)

Posts: 899


I honestly enjoy this new feature. I think it brings more tactics and skill back into the pvp besides just simple hotkey pressing and commanding an army well. It actually requires thinking and planning.

Its been nothing but fun for me to play around with traps, discover new strategies and see pvp actually evolve. Sometimes people escape. Sometimes they don't. This seems fair to me as I never really understood why being trapped in Tibia = pretty much dead.

-Taure
________________
Never judge one by their level or skills; judge them by their kindness and personality.
16.09.2010 19:28:40
Quote Post #28486391

 
Guardakan

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Master Sorcerer
Level: 103

Legend of the Deadly

Posts: 544


Originally posted by Linkirvana on 16.09.2010 12:08:22:
> Originally posted by Guardakan on 16.09.2010
> 11:13:15
:
> >
[...] what people do not like
>
> Your first argument is invalid for the simple fact
> that Dolera is full of die hard power hungry kids
> (the worst kind) who will literally say or do
> anything to stay on top.
>
> I have seen many Dolera battles, and the dynamic I've
> seen mostly is run towards enemies, EKs throw a few
> mwalls here and there, the rest combo bot your enemy
> to shit.
>

it's not been like that for 4 years LOL. go look more recent cams and talk to me again.

> > if u needed some1 that plays hardcore pvp actively
> on
[...]
> > but new players gotta be low levels, and since
> this
> > is hardcore pvp, they will be asked to fight at a
> > time or another. and as new players of
> dolera,they
> > will be low levels facing high levels all the time.
>
> > if they want a chance to survive on such a "hard"
> > server, they need tools to fight back these high
> > levels. the only tool they got is teaming up with
> > other low levels and trap the high level to kill
> him.
> > trying to outrun him results in a fail, and
> adding
> > swap out only leads to one thing... the high level
> > running away every single time.
>
> Yeah but that's the thing - I think we can all agree
> that trapping someone without any form of escape
> until he burns all his supplies is simply lame - if
> this is not the case you seem to forget that he still
> needs to swap himself out of a place.
>
PVP is meant not to let urself get trapped. in addition to that, you already have tools to un-trap yourself :::

A: kill the trappers
B: push the trappers
C: (when they put gp, worm, gp , worm under them... them cheaters eh), you put fire field under the guy and push him.

> Which is not that simple either (I still haven't
> bothered to try out myself, so mind you I base this
> on simply what I heard) atleast if you have the
> firepower to take him down rather quickly (Which you
> do, if he can heal up you'd have to trap him until
> he's out of supplies, which I think is lame and
> should be removed)

tibia is a team game anyways, when will a guy get trapped and attacked for 5 hours until he is out of supplies and than killed??? i mean if you cant kill him after a minute ull already have to worry about hsi friends coming form ur back.

>
> Like Aleppe is saying if you remove the swapping on
> pvp-e we're stuck with the problem of being able to
> trap someone without any escape possible, so come up
> with something better if you can.

like i said above : push, firefield push, kill, call friends to kill. (dont forget that swap out was put because on normal pvps, you cannot always kill your killers and therefore have to pretty much die to get out, it is not the case on dolera, you can kill whoever traps you, and if they kill you before u kill any of them in order to get out, than you just diserve to die


>
> Giving the high levels a slight possibility to escape
> is a small price to pay in my opinion, considering
> how there's still plenty of ways to keep someone
> trapped.

SLIGHT??? possibility. a level 250 will escape a body block trap in 2 seconds (and thats the only way u can trap him anyways............... and good luck killin him if he can swap out from a side to the other of your team before you can kill him (and you wont kill him cuz hes got 8k mana lol)
16.09.2010 19:32:12
Quote Post #28486421

 
Magus Firefly

Inhabitant of Refugia
Profession: Master Sorcerer
Level: 225

Smilodon of the Sixth Extinction

Posts: 5151


Hi

Originally posted by Sir on 16.09.2010 17:01:25:
> plis dont put this in pvp-e.
> Knights and paladins are will inmortals.
> 5 mages lvl 200 can't kill paladin lvl 200.
> Now with this 10 mages lvl 200 can't kill paladin lvl
> 200.
> And mages with utamo in a war are very dificult
> kill.
>
> I think is good idea if u can changing position only
> if dont have parcel, fire.. in they position

The same argument could be done for open pvp...
Its still possible to kill a high level knight with this swapping feature, but of course you need more organisation then before.

I think the most valuable reason to not implement it in hardcore pvp worlds is that noob chars are no problem but have problems in hardcore pvp worlds

So its for sure worth to discuss if this will mean any improvement for hardcore pvp worlds.

Of course 10 level 200 mages should be able to kill any paladin or knight of level 200. Their average damage should be around 3k/attack round, and Im sure they are even at hardcore pvp worlds.

And this example is fully rediculous, because there are up to no level 200 in hardcore pvp worlds (2 in inferna and 13 in dolera)
________________
Solve the depot trashing problem
16.09.2010 19:36:37
Quote Post #28486462

 
Chipirindingui

Inhabitant of Solera
Profession: Elite Knight
Level: 177

Inner Circle of the Castlings (Muted)

Posts: 1469


Swapping position shouldnt be available if you have pz-lock, i mean this feature will be a great benefit for people who gets trapped by pk teams,example: You go walking around kazz, and a pk team trap you, surround you with lvl 8s and hit you until you ran out of pots and kill you,but now you will be able to escape from them.
And now look at it in a war for example, besides being able to stair-hop for countless hours, if they finally manage to trap you, you can easily escape, that aint fair.
Make swapping position only available if you have white swords( just battle), and unavailable if you have red/black swords( pz-lock)
________________
Waiting for life to be good to you, just because you're a good person is like hoping that a bull don't ram you just because you're a vegeterian.
16.09.2010 19:38:42
Quote Post #28486485

 
Myrkat

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Royal Paladin
Level: 139

Member of the Fifth Sin

Posts: 6


please dont put this feature on dolera. we dont need it... feature implemented for normal pvps, put it on normal pvps.... ONLY
16.09.2010 19:40:30
Quote Post #28486500

 
Chipirindingui

Inhabitant of Solera
Profession: Elite Knight
Level: 177

Inner Circle of the Castlings (Muted)

Posts: 1469


Consider the fact that he plays on pvp-e and he knows what hes talking about, and you,you just play on non-pvp.
Originally posted by Magus Firefly on 16.09.2010 19:36:37:
________________
Waiting for life to be good to you, just because you're a good person is like hoping that a bull don't ram you just because you're a vegeterian.
16.09.2010 19:42:28
Quote Post #28486518

 
Califourchon

Inhabitant of Malvera
Profession: Knight
Level: 28

Posts: 4


Originally posted by Chipirindingui on 16.09.2010 19:38:42:
> Swapping position shouldnt be available if you have
> pz-lock, i mean this feature will be a great benefit
> for people who gets trapped by pk teams,example: You
> go walking around kazz, and a pk team trap you,
> surround you with lvl 8s and hit you until you ran
> out of pots and kill you,but now you will be able to
> escape from them.
> And now look at it in a war for example, besides
> being able to stair-hop for countless hours, if they
> finally manage to trap you, you can easily escape,
> that aint fair.
> Make swapping position only available if you have
> white swords( just battle), and unavailable if you
> have red/black swords( pz-lock)

this is really interesting idea.

if a guy attacked anybody and than gets trapped, than he has to un-trap himself the old way (kill, push, firefield push, call friends and kill). if in the other hand he gets attacked and does not fight back, than he can swap out instead (lets say he was lvling while he gets attacked). this would not change the dynamics of pvp-e battles since every1 gets PZlock in there, even if you attack second.
________________
signed, hullong's post character :*
16.09.2010 19:44:17
Quote Post #28486532

 
Guardakan

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Master Sorcerer
Level: 103

Legend of the Deadly

Posts: 544


Originally posted by Chipirindingui on 16.09.2010 19:42:28:
> Consider the fact that he plays on pvp-e and he knows
> what hes talking about, and you,you just play on
> non-pvp.
> Originally posted by Magus Firefly on 16.09.2010
> 19:36:37
:

to be honest it doesnt matter that he doesnt play pvp-e, since he could be looking forward to play one if it was made to be easier. but this change tho is unnecessary (i repeat it again). it was meant to avoir low levels to trap high levels on pvp servers. we already have tools on dolera to avoid getting traped by low levels (kill, firefield push, normal push, friends to help killing......... AND WHAT WE CALL PVP (or at least what remains of it), NOT GETTING TRAPPED LOL).
16.09.2010 19:46:44
Edited by Guardakan
on 16.09.2010 19:47:53
Quote Post #28486561

 
Rocket Warrior

Inhabitant of Inferna
Profession: Royal Paladin
Level: 120

One of the Enlightenment (Danny)

Posts: 90


Originally posted by Taure on 16.09.2010 19:28:40:
> I honestly enjoy this new feature. I think it brings
> more tactics and skill back into the pvp besides just
> simple hotkey pressing and commanding an army well.
> It actually requires thinking and planning.
>
> Its been nothing but fun for me to play around with
> traps, discover new strategies and see pvp actually
> evolve. Sometimes people escape. Sometimes they
> don't. This seems fair to me as I never really
> understood why being trapped in Tibia = pretty much
> dead.
>
> -Taure

YOU SIR, are the reason we cant have nice things.

That is all.
16.09.2010 20:06:37
Quote Post #28486758

 
Guardakan

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Master Sorcerer
Level: 103

Legend of the Deadly

Posts: 544


Originally posted by Rocket Warrior on 16.09.2010 20:06:37:
> Originally posted by Taure on 16.09.2010
> 19:28:40
:
> > I honestly enjoy this new feature. I think it
> brings
> > more tactics and skill back into the pvp besides
> just
> > simple hotkey pressing and commanding an army
> well.
> > It actually requires thinking and planning.
> >
> > Its been nothing but fun for me to play around
> with
> > traps, discover new strategies and see pvp
> actually
> > evolve. Sometimes people escape. Sometimes they
> > don't. This seems fair to me as I never really
> > understood why being trapped in Tibia = pretty
> much
> > dead.
> >
> > -Taure

for pvp/non pvp servers, this is right.

if you read my other post, pvp-e already had solutions to survive traping (starting by not getting traped, part of pvp; push, FFpush, kill...)
16.09.2010 20:09:58
Quote Post #28486788

 
Magus Firefly

Inhabitant of Refugia
Profession: Master Sorcerer
Level: 225

Smilodon of the Sixth Extinction

Posts: 5151


Hi

Originally posted by Chipirindingui on 16.09.2010 19:42:28:
> Consider the fact that he plays on pvp-e and he knows
> what hes talking about, and you,you just play on
> non-pvp.
> Originally posted by Magus Firefly on 16.09.2010
> 19:36:37
:

Consider the fact that he spoke about a non existing situation in hardcore pvp: many level 200 attacking an other level 200 char.

Thats exactly what I wrote and of course im clearly right here.

And if you read my comment you would see that I did not write this should come to hardcore pvp servers, but in constrary that we should discuss if this makes sense for hardcore pvp servers.

Guardakan is fully right that this swapping was made to avoid the low level interference in wars. This has now evolved to a new features to escape traps for everyone.

And I also of course fully agree with all of you who said that the low level interference is only a by far smaller problem in hardcore pvp.

Its a fact that you can still kill everyone if you fight with an organised team, no matter how high his level is. This also counts for hardcore pvp, even if the swapping will come.

But you must plan better and think about possible ways to escape for the victim, lure him into situations where he cant swap...

Example: If a mage would come to the idea to ue to get rid of the noob chars blocking him, (which would make sense in principle at hardcore pvp) he also hits "all" others which means he looses his chance to swap with any of them (if they have not attacked him before) rendering him trapped. So he must be very careful thinking about what to do.

So alltogether I think there are 2 points here:

1. you must learn more about swapping to jugde if its really as bad for hardcore pvp as you think
2. low level interference is "no real" problem in hardcore pvp servers, so no reason to add the swapping feature.
________________
Solve the depot trashing problem
16.09.2010 21:01:56
Quote Post #28487208

 
Invinsible

Inhabitant of Vinera
Profession: Elite Knight
Level: 85

New Knight of the Circle of Trust

Posts: 25


So what's happening here is that when lets say a group of my friend and me are going to kill a guy in lets say an open battle.

As a Knight, it's my job to get to the guy and try to trap him. But what you're saying is that if me and my fellow friends manage to trap the guy painstakingly after seemingly hours of mwalling and paralyzes, he can just swap out and be on his merry way? He can't swap back with the other person, but he can swap again with another person quickly (1 second delay)

This is to clarify what I'm trying to get across, and whether this is what is going to be implemented.

For Example:
X - Fellow teammates + myself
- - Mwalls
O - Guy we're trying to kill

Stage 1:

Guy is trapped.

- - - -
X X X -
- O - -
X X - -
X X X X

Stage 2:
Guy swaps with guy below him

- - - -
X X X -
- X - -
X O - -
X X X X

Stage 3:
After 1 second, the guy swaps with the next guy

- - - -
X X X -
- X - -
X X - -
X O X X

Stage 4:

Guy gets away

- - - -
X X X -
- X - -
X X - -
X X X X


So every second, this guy is able to swap with one of my group to get out of a trap? If you look at it from my perspective, I'm playing in an American server from Australia. My latency would be around 400, and others would be also. That would give someone in America a much bigger chance of getting out because of the delay between us recieving the information and doing something about it.

Hence, people are able to get out of traps far too easily. And in an open battle, I'm not going to risk my butt for my team, taking heavy fire from pallies and mages if I can trap a guy and he can just swap me away and run off.
16.09.2010 21:06:44
Edited by Invinsible
on 16.09.2010 21:07:50
Quote Post #28487260

 
Stonejaw the Brute

Inhabitant of Solera
Profession: Knight
Level: 23

Posts: 85


Definately what would be best is if the hardcore servers in general could be tweaked to better suit the tastes of the players currently there, and the players who are seeking to play there.
some examples would be the return of the pvp exp's , and remove item protections so to properly provide a truely hardcore game-environment as death defying and hostile as possable.

Its long overdue in my opinon that the communitys there on hardcore servers be given proper concideration.

I presume that it is a matter of technical conciderations or game mechanics of some description that seem to result in the hardcore players being led down the same road as those in the entirely different open pvp game environments , so it is here again with these important changes for open pvp

These features will perhaps NEED to be implimented in open-pvp, I think they are essentual on open
but there will always be an aspect of fear and daring that some players will crave that they only seem to achieve in high risk pvp atmospheres
I concider it is best if this particular feature is not introduced to pvp hardcore but only and definately to pvp-open.

Additionally my opinion is that when this feature is introduced along with the other features most players will develop and adjust and frankly 'get over it' but also that when this feature is introduced a lot of players now pvp'g on open servers will crave some more action and want to have at least the option of a true hardcore server to remain available.

Thankyou.
16.09.2010 21:26:24
Quote Post #28487427

 
Pegon Poxalis

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Master Sorcerer
Level: 98

Loony of the Dancy Time (Loco)

Posts: 273


honestly aleppe, I've read some more of your posts now, and after this post I'm going to simply ignore you. You call me a big mouth but honestly guy, read some of your own posts.

You're right you don't have to prove anything to me, but your ego is huge if you actually think I need to prove anything to your self-entitled, self-serving personality.

You will never have a good debate with others as you come into everything with your head way above everyone else.

Finally, in addition to you stating your involvment in inferna as being on the first PoI team, that was what, 2 years ago? You seem to have preconceived notions about our servers that are warped and outdated leaving to the obvious conclusion that you are probably no longer a part of either dolera or inferna.


Goodbye kid.




also, I'm no longer going to fight to preserve my servers if decisions are made the way I've seen screenshots of those "focus groups" go. If PvP-E is ruined me and most of my team are gone off this game, and unlike the promises these non-pvpers have had about switching to open-pvp/hardcore if the things they've asked for (and receieved) are done, we will actually hold to our word and cancel our premiums.
________________
Dear World,

I have the internet and a keyboard so you have to listen to me
16.09.2010 21:55:54
Quote Post #28487671

 
Feny Garyoris

Inhabitant of Zanera
Profession: Sorcerer
Level: 156

Member of the Imperiumm

Posts: 357


Originally posted by Taure on 16.09.2010 19:28:40:
> I honestly enjoy this new feature. I think it brings
> more tactics and skill back into the pvp besides just
> simple hotkey pressing and commanding an army well.
> It actually requires thinking and planning.
>
> Its been nothing but fun for me to play around with
> traps, discover new strategies and see pvp actually
> evolve. Sometimes people escape. Sometimes they
> don't. This seems fair to me as I never really
> understood why being trapped in Tibia = pretty much
> dead.
>
> -Taure

It will just turn more easy to escape from an snake attack or an masslog.

It will just destroy tibia old and nice tatics that still remain.

DO NOT IMPLEMENT IT.
________________
Yours,
Fenek the "King of Venore".
Don't give us 20 unjusts for killing 1 guy!
Tibian Age Outfit
16.09.2010 22:06:11
Quote Post #28487748

 
Slewyrus

Inhabitant of Fidera
Profession: Master Sorcerer
Level: 102

Supreme Council of the Immersion

Posts: 76
Thumbs up 

Alright


Lets ruin another one for Tibia
16.09.2010 22:21:50
Quote Post #28487862

 

Página 19:

Aissy

Inhabitant of Elysia
Profession: Elite Knight
Level: 239

Salvation of the Cruoris

Posts: 561


After testing this feature out a lot i found some things that i find incorrect.

Currently you cant swap without taking damage, but this limitation can be gone around by doing self-inflicted damage to your self, for example putting a fire field under you. This seems very contradiction to me.

First, why make so you cant swap unless you take damage if you can just make damage to your self and then be able to swap?

Secondly, this will make yet another thing be different between open/hardcore pvp and optional pvp servers since they cant do any self inflicted damage and then not swap in this way. It was not long ago there were done changes to limit those differences as much as possible so adding another doest make sense.

In my opinion this should be changed to either you can swap without the need of taking damage or you should not be able to swap unless you take pvp damage from anyone except yourself.
16.09.2010 22:39:35
Quote Post #28488037

 
Hellcry

Inhabitant of Inferna
Profession: Royal Paladin
Level: 88

Posts: 35


Now lets see... I can start it I guess with dont implent this on hardcore pvp.

We got absolutely no need for it, quite the opposite, adding it would just ruin the balance that exists in pvp on hardcore servers.
Theres two sides on hardcore pvp fight eachother, sometimes its a three way war but those only lasts for a week max before the third party either joins 1 side or splits up into both. But nvm that.

What is the situation if swapping was added on hardcore would be the side with the higher levels, the people that are so hard to kill even with the ability to trap them just because of the fact they are so fast, trapping them only happends rarely. If, for example Piixy or Almighty Danne would get in a sitatuion to be trapped, we would make sure the mwalls have at least 10 seconds left on them before we start counting the sd combo. I just cant imagine how we could kill em if they could just swap out of our team.

As I said at the start, this would damage the balance on pvp hardcore, not benefit any of it except around 4 high levels on Inferna. Maybe a bit more on Dolera. The rest of the population of hardcore servers would have to quit, being unable to fight against those having the control.

Please think about it.
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16.09.2010 22:42:29
Quote Post #28488059

 
Elven Jaris

Inhabitant of Solera
Profession: Elder Druid
Level: 221

One of the Prophecy

Posts: 211


this is another dumb idea, if your involved in pvp one of the main tactics to kill a high lvl knight or such is to trap and kill them. and this would give a big advantage to a bigger team in a battle... stop making this game about who has more friends and turn it back into about having more skill...
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17.09.2010 00:11:22
Quote Post #28488733

 
Will Phirin

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Druid
Level: 72

Posts: 18


no thats all i have to say is NO!!

fix something else

like loot drops or price npcs buys rares

i wonder how long its gonna take for someone to find a way to abuse this function just how the stacking function was abused around the same day as the update came out

ur making this game just like wow STOP IT!!

u guys allready got owned by wizards of the coast for the whole "beholder thing"

now u want blizzard to come and stomp u guys to the ground eh lol
17.09.2010 00:26:18
Quote Post #28488860

 
Sephferiuz

Inhabitant of Mythera
Profession: Elite Knight
Level: 255

General of the Sismo

Posts: 514


People that is in party shouldn't count in the damage to swap, since people makes a defense and i come with a team in party so we attack each other and i can swap with the defense guy and break the defense.

-Kingpin.
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17.09.2010 00:56:42
Quote Post #28489130

 
Mathenus

Inhabitant of Nebula
Profession: Elite Knight
Level: 123

Posts: 375


Originally posted by Sephferiuz on 17.09.2010 00:56:42:
> People that is in party shouldn't count in the damage
> to swap, since people makes a defense and i come with
> a team in party so we attack each other and i can
> swap with the defense guy and break the defense.
>
> -Kingpin.


I lol'ed

big solutions sometimes are so simply...
it's solve some problems and makes total sense...
if someone is on party with you, we supose it's because they are together, not against, so these people won't trap each other... so, no swamp if someone besides you is on party
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Made in Brasil.
17.09.2010 01:20:54
Quote Post #28489297

 
Bozo The Klown

Inhabitant of Malvera
Profession: Sorcerer
Level: 19

Posts: 1
Thumbs down 

Tibia test server bug? switching places with someone gives you exaust so you cant heal yourself. So it can be easily abused.
17.09.2010 01:33:23
Quote Post #28489366

 
Devourer

Inhabitant of Inferna
Profession: Elder Druid
Level: 142

Legend of the Memento Mori

Posts: 48


Whatever you do dont inplent this in hardcore pvp please!
As people said on open pvp servers there are always alot of noobchars blocking and destroying the fun of war but on harcore pvp there are no noobchar(if there is they die instantly).
This swapping thing will ruin the pvp on hardcore because it will be inpossible to kill any high lvls at all.

Lets say i get m walled in and trapped by people around me i would just swap and be on my way out again so it would be impossible to kill anyone.


PLEASE DONT INPLENT THIS!
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17.09.2010 01:40:28
Quote Post #28489411

 
Guardakan

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Master Sorcerer
Level: 103

Legend of the Deadly

Posts: 544


Originally posted by Pegon Poxalis on 16.09.2010 21:55:54:
> honestly aleppe, I've read some more of your posts
> now, and after this post I'm going to simply ignore
> you. You call me a big mouth but honestly guy, read
> some of your own posts.
>
> You're right you don't have to prove anything to me,
> but your ego is huge if you actually think I need to
> prove anything to your self-entitled, self-serving
> personality.
>
> You will never have a good debate with others as you
> come into everything with your head way above
> everyone else.
>
> Finally, in addition to you stating your involvment
> in inferna as being on the first PoI team, that was
> what, 2 years ago? You seem to have preconceived
> notions about our servers that are warped and
> outdated leaving to the obvious conclusion that you
> are probably no longer a part of either dolera or
> inferna.

3 years. they did it a few months after pande/dc war started.

>
> Goodbye kid.
>
>
>
>
> also, I'm no longer going to fight to preserve my
> servers if decisions are made the way I've seen
> screenshots of those "focus groups" go. If PvP-E is
> ruined me and most of my team are gone off this game,
> and unlike the promises these non-pvpers have had
> about switching to open-pvp/hardcore if the things
> they've asked for (and receieved) are done, we will
> actually hold to our word and cancel our premiums.


but yeh , the fact somebody played a pvp-e BACK IN THE DAYS doesnt make him know the needs/dynamics of it NOW. i can tell that in the last years, dolera for instance, changed A LOT. it went from almost every1 cheat to ::: a team of no-cheaters (level 90s) VS a team of massive-combo-bot cheaters (level 150s).

(on a side note, i do not support cheating. i only mentioned it to point out the fact that dolera changed alot in the battles' dynamics)
17.09.2010 03:02:57
Edited by Guardakan
on 17.09.2010 03:05:40
Quote Post #28489803

 
Flamhethrower

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Master Sorcerer
Level: 86

Flammen of the Fires Of Heaven

Posts: 5
PLEASE DONT INPLENT THIS ON HARDCORE PVP!

WHAT IS IT?
its a joke!

it will be impossible to kill a high lvl knigh or paladins!


what you guys wanna do? make it impossible to kill? always create tools that make the pvp a joke!

now out of theory: my pk team goes to kill someone we mwall around him, trap him so, if we dont kill him in the mwall time, the target scapes, ahahah funny

THATS FUNNY, U TRAP THE TARGET, BUT U CANNOT ATK HIM, CUZ HE GONNA RUN AWAY IF U DO!

no offence but swap position is a joke!!
NOTHING PERSONAL

PLEASE DONT INPLENT THIS ON HARDCORE PVP!
17.09.2010 03:12:51
Edited by Flamhethrower
on 17.09.2010 03:14:30
Quote Post #28489850

 
Califourchon

Inhabitant of Malvera
Profession: Knight
Level: 28

Posts: 4


Originally posted by Flamhethrower on 17.09.2010 03:12:51:
> WHAT IS IT?
> its a joke!
>
> it will be impossible to kill a high lvl knigh or
> paladins!
>
>
> what you guys wanna do? make it impossible to kill?
> always create tools that make the pvp a joke!
>
> now out of theory: my pk team goes to kill someone we
> mwall around him, trap him so, if we dont kill him in
> the mwall time, the target scapes, ahahah funny
>
> THATS FUNNY, U TRAP THE TARGET, BUT U CANNOT ATK HIM,
> CUZ HE GONNA RUN AWAY IF U DO!
>
> no offence but swap position is a joke!!
> NOTHING PERSONAL
>
> PLEASE DONT INPLENT THIS ON HARDCORE PVP!


JAJAJAJAJA, i love this br :*****

if i was called craban i would make everything in my power so it wouldnt get added on hardcore pvp or that guy will find you and kill you jajajajaja (both irl or ingame, if you play that is <which i doubt cuz ur a fag and dont realise how you fuck up all the game but anyways>
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17.09.2010 03:20:17
Quote Post #28489888

 
Drowjs

Inhabitant of Danera
Profession: Master Sorcerer
Level: 115

Greed of the Seven Deadly Sinz

Posts: 86


i cant belive that thing...retired thx
17.09.2010 03:34:57
Quote Post #28489949

 
Astris the Druid

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Elder Druid
Level: 78

Wacky of the Dancy Time

Posts: 104


This is just some lame joke, right?
Another one of those April Fool's fails?
Because I tested this system and it is terrible, no actually it's beyond that.
As previously mentioned this gives major advantages to bigger teams, bot teams, high level knights and pallies. It's as if you're trying to get rid of people.
I can assure you if you go through with this update, you'll no longer be receiving money from me.

Stop letting the ideas fall from your assess and just let the game be for a change.
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17.09.2010 03:55:18
Quote Post #28490069

 
Riziaokkioz

Inhabitant of Askara
Profession: Druid
Level: 107

Crisantemos Rush of the Countdown

Posts: 10
Angry 

i cant belive that thing...retired thx
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17.09.2010 04:25:23
Quote Post #28490203

 
Irmanah Eventchen

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Sorcerer
Level: 19

Posts: 4
DO NOT IMPLEMENT THIS ON PVP HARDCORES!

I tested it playing the test server and SERIOUSLY!
It RUINED the pvp.


SAY NO TO SWAPPING POSITIONS IN PVP HARDCORES!


I hope atleast this time cipsoft listen to us, because we are the customers, lots of people are complaining, with decent reasons.


One of the most fun fatcs of pvp on Tibia is that if the team got enough skills and act smartly, they can trap their enemies having a hard work(mwalling, walking and surrounding their enemys, pushing then mwalling...).
People have to be smart to play and trapping is one of the most important things on PvP!

It is awesome the feeling you get when you push someone, mwall and trap him! Also when you are trapped and you push your enemies one by one and escape from the trap!!

It takes brains to do that and that is why it is important!


I know it important ON OPEN PVP SERVERS to avoid the trapping with low level players and such, even if still would mess the pvp, but this is not only unnecessary on pvp hardcores as it RUINS the pvp on pvp hardcore servers!!!
17.09.2010 04:26:07
Quote Post #28490209

 
Rohons Rage

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Master Sorcerer
Level: 113

Legend of the Deadly

Posts: 284


Originally posted by Aleppe on 16.09.2010 10:24:10:
> Originally posted by Raspoutine on 16.09.2010
> 10:15:04
:
> > i just hope you guys (cip) realise that the 20
> pages
> > of signatures against the implementation of this
> > swap-out signature on PVP-e represent the WHOLE
> > POPULATION of the pvp-enforced servers... NOBODY
> ON
> > IT WANT THAT.
> >
> >
> > hope you listen to us... this time for once...
>
>
> Mind to tell me just one reason to listen to players
> complaints given that Hardcore pvp servers are dead
> servers and that who's complaining here are right
> those who want to keep things like they are now?
>
>
> Aleppe
you're an idiot, he was talking about implementing it for pvp-e.. obviously they should listen to what pvp-e players have to say about what should be implemented on pvp-e servers.
17.09.2010 05:08:00
Quote Post #28490416

 
Kravy

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Master Sorcerer
Level: 224

Vice Leader of the Fifth Sin

Posts: 93


Please, I am begging you not to introduce this to hardcore pvp servers...I'M BEGGING.
For once, just for once please listen to us. I enjoy the game but i'm 100% sure i'm quitting if this happens.
17.09.2010 05:30:43
Quote Post #28490515

 
Guerilla Sin

Inhabitant of Rubera
Profession: Druid
Level: 132

Posts: 422


Originally posted by Dusty Starlight on 16.09.2010 07:31:56:
> Dolera 118
> Inferna 61
>
> and still, they come here saying that things should
> stay like they are. Bunch of botters and griefers
> wannabe.

It's an unfortunate truth but not every server can be sunshine rainbows and unicorns. There has to be chaotic servers where war is constant and devastating. You took both servers online times when they weren't at their average peak. From what I've seen it's around 200+ on inferna and a little bit higher sometimes 300 on dolera. This swapping thing is just another joke, guess what? nobodies laughing. as I said in the discussion of the latest news, trapping and avoiding traps is a fundamental of tibia. just don't do it... I moved to hardcore pvp because of all these nonsensical useless updates that are supposed to give victims a chance. well giving people a chance goes against the name of the goddamn server. its hardcore not optional, not open, its bloody HARDCORE.

And yeah, we're grieving, i'd say 90% of the of what I've read from the feed back (from 100+ pvp server players) and 99% of Hardcore pvp (excluding you obviously) are grieving over the death of tibia. you've changed almost everything in this game and now all that's left is the name... any suggestions? =)
17.09.2010 05:40:22
Quote Post #28490556

 
Houdiny

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Master Sorcerer
Level: 255

Vice Leader of the Fifth Sin

Posts: 13
Angry 

I hope you are not introduce this on hardcore pvp
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17.09.2010 05:48:51
Quote Post #28490591

 
Bigpharma

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Druid
Level: 26

Wacky of the Dancy Time

Posts: 4


Originally posted by Alecto Misc on 16.09.2010 16:02:55:
> I have taken some time to examine the issue of swaps
> on pvp-e.
>
> The dynamics on pvp-e are much different that pvp
> servers. On pvp-e the higher level can just kill the
> "noob" that is blocking him. If needed the high
> level can even use area spells, as his only "worry"
> would be in dealing damage to a friend, if he has a
> friend in the area at the time.
>
> This is something that can NOT be done on a pvp
> server. You can't attack those noobs, because then
> you get a skull, and the pk team would just kill the
> noobs so you get a fast red or black skull, which
> makes your losses much worse.
>
> You can't use an area spell for the same reason. It
> would be just pure suicide and cause you a lot of
> harm with a red or black skull.
>
> The swap feature was designed primarily for pvp
> servers.

atleast 1 person from the focus group isnt a stubborn ass >.>

please DO NOT put the swap feature in h-pvp it will ruin it for all 500~ of us =)

Originally posted by Aleppe on 15.09.2010 10:59:53:
> @ Xero Kaos:
>
> You're welcome.
>
> The 1st thing that one needs to note when talking
> about swaps, is that they come from a Focus Group
> discussion meant to find solutions to noobchars / 3rd
> part interferences in both skull/war system combats.

you said it yourself, its a solution to NOOB CHARS so leave hardcore pvp out of it... noob chars cannot survive on the battlefield because they get wiped out with no mercy whatsoever
17.09.2010 05:54:43
Edited by Bigpharma
on 17.09.2010 05:57:46
Quote Post #28490598

 

Página 20:

Shiver shot

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Paladin
Level: 80

Member of the Fifth Sin

Posts: 6
Angry no

dont add this to (hardcore)pvp
its hardcore pvp
whats next: posibily of logout is some one atacks you ?????
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17.09.2010 05:58:30
Quote Post #28490614

 
Catalyzt

Inhabitant of Inferna
Profession: Sorcerer
Level: 81

Posts: 41


I am wholeheartedly against swapping, there is absolutely no need at all for that feature on Hardcore PvP!
17.09.2010 06:01:26
Quote Post #28490617

 
Sharp Dressed Man

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Elder Druid
Level: 126

Funky of the Dancy Time (Beast Mode)

Posts: 871


Do you even read these threads CIP? It's pretty damn ignorant that you don't even respond or give an explanation to your loyal customers. Once again hardcore PvP will suffer from another update because you can't be bothered paying any extra attention to our servers. Don't you understand YOU'RE KILLING OUR SERVERS? Our population has failed because of your updates. Finally, I'm furious and ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTED with your attitude towards customers and this is the last premium I'll ever pay for.
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Encourage Hardcore PvP!
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17.09.2010 06:08:31
Quote Post #28490639

 
Mangoner

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Master Sorcerer
Level: 184

Vice Leader of the Fifth Sin

Posts: 699
Angry 

Not agreed......
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09:59 Lowix [190]: You should really do some research before posting on the forums.

17.09.2010 06:10:23
Quote Post #28490646

 
Mathenus

Inhabitant of Nebula
Profession: Elite Knight
Level: 123

Posts: 375


I think there is no need anymore to say that the massive majority DOESNT want it...

put the system and you'll gonna proof that you couldn't care less for us

I got 3 differents pvp teams and I simply don't know a person who actually wants this system... no one in what... maybe 150 people...

you really should drop this Idea at once... do not implement it on any kind of server...

but with years of experience I know that Cip usually does these things... no matter what we say... so, if you put the system, AT LEAST, make no possible to swap if you have a person on your party besides you
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Made in Brasil.
17.09.2010 06:10:54
Edited by Mathenus
on 17.09.2010 06:19:40
Quote Post #28490650

 
Luv Gluv

Inhabitant of Inferna
Profession: Elite Knight
Level: 85

Posts: 7
Unhappy 

Two thumbs down for this swapping feature, no need on inferna.
17.09.2010 06:37:06
Edited by Luv Gluv
on 17.09.2010 06:37:25
Quote Post #28490740

 
Supreme

Inhabitant of Rubera
Profession: Elder Druid
Level: 102

Posts: 8


Do not process the swappy time for hardcore pvp please, the sole purpose of pvp is your ability to trap and/or not to be trapped, this will ruin hardcore pvp servers so PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not go ahead with this "swappy time" feature.
17.09.2010 07:37:36
Quote Post #28490903

 
Lobo Tico

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Elder Druid
Level: 68

Member of the Fifth Sin

Posts: 2


DONT IMPLEMENT THIS ON HARDCORE PVP>

PLEASE IT RUINS THE HARDCORE IN TRAPPING AND SNEAKING PLAYERS DURING WAR>

DOLERA AND INFERNA ASK OF CIPSOFT THAT YOU DONT IMPLEMENT THIS IN THIS SERVER.

SIGNED,

A FELLOW DOLERAN
17.09.2010 09:06:44
Quote Post #28491144

 
Olboney

Inhabitant of Mythera
Profession: Elite Knight
Level: 183

Posts: 146


This Swapping mode is useless even in a open-pvp world.

What about knights?
we'll get no chance to kill anyone cause they'll swap place and run away.


Remember that's fierce berserk its just 8 sqm beside you and it's hard to place this while victim is running

lol
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17.09.2010 09:29:01
Quote Post #28491225

 
Guardakan

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Master Sorcerer
Level: 103

Legend of the Deadly

Posts: 544


Originally posted by Craban on 27.08.2010 12:58:47:
> What should be tested?
>
> - Does it work correctly?
> - Are there ways to abuse this?
> - Does it break anything else in the game?

> - Does it work correctly?

no... this was meant to be used by players who get traped by low levels (and by "pacific" players)

case 1 :::

a "so-called-pacific player who wants to play a PVP server but not get killed by nobody" (lets just say player A) gets trapped by low levels WHO DO NOT ATTACK HIM obviously, he cannot fight back (would get a skull/pz lock on pvp-e). this lets plenty of time for the players willing to kill the trapped player to come, fill every spot on his screen and than kill him. the swap out did not help the player to escape level 8's trapping him

case 2 :::

a level 200 gets trapped by a group of level 80's that have been killed several times by the level 200. the levels 80s attack him. the level 200 swap out and run away in the open field and simply survives (level 80s cannot catch him)

if u put it in the other way around, the level 80 gets traped by the level 200. he swaps out, "escapes", but still can NEVER out run the level 200 and ends up dieing.

... not helping the good players at all

> - Are there ways to abuse this?

using this to trap players (surround yourself by your friends, + the guy you want to trap, swap with him and than move and let only 1 square free so he can move... cant swap out and the swap out actually got him traped).

2nd way to abuse is to simply not put red box around the trapped player. you trap a guy, crosshair your sd and than make a countdown (or not even, important is not to put the red box since he cannot swap out than)

> - Does it break anything else in the game?

PVP dynamics, wars, battles, capacity to trap players (which is meant to be the last thing pvp means... because lets be honest... the only thing that define pvp nowadays is "avoid getting traped and trap players". basically hurts the whole gameplay.




cip eventually could affect population of dolera in a good way if it was not implemented since every single player who doesnt like it would play a pvp-e server.

edit : i answered your questions that you ask on every thread but this one. gave you plenty of very, very strong/good/solid arguments. if you do not listen to us (pvp-e players) and implement this, it pretty much means you dont care a damn second about us.
17.09.2010 11:27:47
Edited by Guardakan
on 17.09.2010 11:29:31
Quote Post #28491628

 
Linkirvana

Inhabitant of Libera
Profession: Paladin
Level: 29

Posts: 696


Originally posted by Guardakan on 17.09.2010
>
> no... this was meant to be used by players who get
> traped by low levels (and by "pacific" players)

I also see another big advantage: the possibility of escape without having to solo kill the people around you (Which is mostly the case when you get e.g. sneaked)

To me that sounds like it adds a whole different dynamic to the whole PvP situation, an interesting dynamic making it harder to kill and easier to escape.

And since killing is a whole lot easier than dying I think that balances things out a bit.

> case 1 :::
>
> a "so-called-pacific player who wants to play a PVP
> server but not get killed by nobody" (lets just say
> player A) gets trapped by low levels WHO DO NOT
> ATTACK HIM obviously, he cannot fight back (would get
> a skull/pz lock on pvp-e). this lets plenty
> of time for the players willing to kill the trapped
> player to come, fill every spot on his screen and
> than kill him. the swap out did not help the player
> to escape level 8's trapping him

There's just 1 very, very, veeery small detail you miss here: player A can simply log out, no problems at all.

> case 2 :::
>
> a level 200 gets trapped by a group of level 80's
> that have been killed several times by the level 200.
> the levels 80s attack him. the level 200 swap out
> and run away in the open field and simply survives
> (level 80s cannot catch him)

The dude's higher leveled, so it requires more tactic - you are claiming it will be literally impossible to kill anyone at all after this update, but you seem to forget that there's still plenty of tactics to take down someone, even in a situation like this.

> if u put it in the other way around, the level 80
> gets traped by the level 200. he swaps out,
> "escapes", but still can NEVER out run the level 200
> and ends up dieing.
>
> ... not helping the good players at all

Why are in your scenario the low levels always the good guys? In my opinion that's the advantage/disadvantage of your level - you run faster/slower.

Obviously the level 200 is supposed to have some forms of advantage over the level 80

> using this to trap players (surround yourself by your
> friends, + the guy you want to trap, swap with him
> and than move and let only 1 square free so he can
> move... cant swap out and the swap out actually got
> him traped).

So there you have it, you just answered your own problem with the level 80's killing the level 200's, use it smart and his ass is yours.

> 2nd way to abuse is to simply not put red box
> around the trapped player. you trap a guy, crosshair
> your sd and than make a countdown (or not even,
> important is not to put the red box since he cannot
> swap out than)

Enjoy your unjusts then - unless this is in war mode, when the guy probably has some friends to back him up, besides, after the SDs are fired he can swap out (I assume, haven't tried)

> PVP dynamics, wars, battles, capacity to trap players
> (which is meant to be the last thing pvp means...
> because lets be honest... the only thing that define
> pvp nowadays is "avoid getting traped and trap
> players". basically hurts the whole gameplay.

Like I said before it's easier to kill than get killed, so with this change it balances things out a bit more in my opinion.

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17.09.2010 11:59:50
Quote Post #28491761

 
Linkirvana

Inhabitant of Libera
Profession: Paladin
Level: 29

Posts: 696


> cip eventually could affect population of dolera in a
> good way if it was not implemented since every single
> player who doesnt like it would play a pvp-e server.

I consider the chances of that basicly none, since you guys will be there waiting with your combobots - as it has been since as long as I can remember.

> edit : i answered your questions that you ask on
> every thread but this one. gave you plenty of
> very, very strong/good/solid arguments.
> if you do not listen to us (pvp-e players) and
> implement this, it pretty much means you dont care a
> damn second about us.

I just debunked basicly all of your arguments, both your examples were basicly shit and irrelevant to the problem at hand, which is that swapping according to you has a negative effect on the gameplay. The first point you raise doesn't even apply because of the ability to simply log out, the second point you raise is irrelevant because it's about speed advantages of people's levels.

I could name another thousand examples where speed is the key factor to killing someone - this 1 is not any different.
________________
I've got something to say!

I killed your baby today!

It doesn't matter much to me, as long as it's fuckin' dead!
17.09.2010 12:00:28
Quote Post #28491764

 
Knightz Force

Inhabitant of Trimera
Profession: Knight
Level: 44

Posts: 4


I think the message is clear to any CIP member reading this. People ain't happy and don't do it...

listen to your customers for once idiots
17.09.2010 12:32:42
Quote Post #28491920

 
Aleppe

Inhabitant of Nerana
Profession: Elder Druid
Level: 147

Posts: 5847


Knightz~ :

That's right what was lacking here: a ranting big mouth not supported by a sufficient comprehension rate.


Aleppe
________________
INFLICTING PAIN ON GRIEFERS
PVP BLESSING
LIMIT CONTAINERS CAP!
§OLD ACCOUNTS§ Ancients power
17.09.2010 12:52:38
Quote Post #28492027

 
Magus Firefly

Inhabitant of Refugia
Profession: Master Sorcerer
Level: 225

Smilodon of the Sixth Extinction

Posts: 5151


Hi

@Guardakan:

You need to learn some tactics about this feature.

You can shoot at yourself with a poison/fire field. This counts as pvp damage and then you can swap with any team.
So you wont have much time to countdown anything or bring a team to kill someone, while keeping someone trapped.

Edit:
And of course keeping one spot free to avoid someone can swap is also only effective against knights and very low levels who cant use magic walls.
________________
Solve the depot trashing problem
17.09.2010 13:36:12
Edited by Magus Firefly
on 17.09.2010 13:38:32
Quote Post #28492250

 
Magus Firefly

Inhabitant of Refugia
Profession: Master Sorcerer
Level: 225

Smilodon of the Sixth Extinction

Posts: 5151


Hi

Swapping requirements in optional PVP bugged

Any non war member "blocking" you also counts as a "wall", which means swapping is enabled in situations where the war member can easily walk through that player.

A trap situation is only reached if the player is trapped with war enemies and magic wall/wild growth runes and!! also only with those from war enemies!

We tried it and my magic walls trapped Aleppe (I was outside the war) and enabled the swaps.

Edit:

Tested summons:

My summon (me outside war again) count as trap for Aleppe (which is wrong because he can walk through it), and the summoned dog got the yellow square for swapping, but it was not possible to swap with it (Aleppe got a snapback).
________________
Solve the depot trashing problem
17.09.2010 14:06:51
Edited by Magus Firefly
on 17.09.2010 14:14:30
Quote Post #28492394

 
Asallen Avelen

Inhabitant of Morgana
Profession: Druid
Level: 19

Posts: 82


Originally posted by Magus Firefly on 17.09.2010 13:36:12:
> Hi
>
> @Guardakan:
>
> You need to learn some tactics about this feature.
>
> You can shoot at yourself with a poison/fire field.
> This counts as pvp damage and then you can swap with
> any team.
> So you wont have much time to countdown anything or
> bring a team to kill someone, while keeping someone
> trapped.
>
> Edit:
> And of course keeping one spot free to avoid someone
> can swap is also only effective against knights and
> very low levels who cant use magic walls.

Quick question. If you shoot a fire/poison/energy field under yourself and swap yourself with someone, won't you get white skulled? Or if the person who you swapped with was in warmode but HE swaps with a noobchar right after, won't this also get you skulled?
17.09.2010 14:10:51
Quote Post #28492416

 
Magus Firefly

Inhabitant of Refugia
Profession: Master Sorcerer
Level: 225

Smilodon of the Sixth Extinction

Posts: 5151


Hi

Originally posted by Asallen Avelen on 17.09.2010 14:10:51:

> Quick question. If you shoot a fire/poison/energy
> field under yourself and swap yourself with someone,
> won't you get white skulled? Or if the person who you
> swapped with was in warmode but HE swaps with a
> noobchar right after, won't this also get you
> skulled?

If you have any field below you, no matter who shot it and swap after that the field gets destroyed! So no way to get a white skull
________________
Solve the depot trashing problem
17.09.2010 14:19:08
Quote Post #28492467

 
Aleppe

Inhabitant of Nerana
Profession: Elder Druid
Level: 147

Posts: 5847


I confirm the bugs Magus Firefly reported about swaps with 3rd part chars, 3rd part MW/WG, war mode char summons.
If you shoot a fire/poison/energy field under yourself and swap yourself with someone, won't you get white skulled?

No you won't result white skulled and the field will disappear in swapping, meaning that it won't hurt the character swapped by your one.


Or if the person who you swapped with was in warmode but HE swaps with a noobchar right after, won't this also get you skulled?

Not in this case, but yes, there is the possibility to mark somebody with a white skull using swaps, but you'll have to find that way alone


Aleppe

[edit]

Combo
________________
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17.09.2010 14:21:56
Edited by Aleppe
on 17.09.2010 14:22:39
Quote Post #28492477

 
Abomination xenix

Inhabitant of Inferna
Profession: Royal Paladin
Level: 44

Posts: 17


Hardcore PVP does not want this.... dont ruin the only server were you can fight normaly
17.09.2010 15:21:48
Quote Post #28492829

 

Página 21:

Dark Chilean

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Sorcerer
Level: 69

Posts: 21
Roll Eyes 

This in hardcore PvP is just help to the botters because they ever are traped and we kill him but now hey can run LOL
Just botter are trapeds in hardcore PvP
________________
Chilean For Ever

Encourage Hardcore PvP!
17.09.2010 16:35:26
Quote Post #28493244

 
Shatterhand

Inhabitant of Obsidia
Profession: Knight
Level: 145

Member of the Magnificent

Posts: 733


There is a situation that harms really badly knights that do not have 9 magic level (which they gain approximately on 160 lvl). That is when you are in dead end with a width of one square and your trappers left you one square at the end of the tunnel. You can do NOTHING if you are unable to use magic walls. Other vocations can get out from that trap on level 32 but knights as always are HIGHLY disadvantaged - they need about 160 level!

There was a player that showed the problem but I have not seen any response to that.
________________
"800 Poles would equal 8000 enemy soldiers." - Napoleon Bonaparte

NON-PVPERS SHOULD BE SEEN AND NOT HEARD

All Knights - We are Unbalanced?
17.09.2010 16:51:04
Quote Post #28493317

 
Mathenus

Inhabitant of Nebula
Profession: Elite Knight
Level: 123

Posts: 375


STOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP IT!

OMG, I don't wanna stop playing tibia, I like it the way it is... but if this update comes I simply will have no other choice!
________________
/Thaigon
Made in Brasil.
17.09.2010 17:18:52
Quote Post #28493484

 
Olboney

Inhabitant of Mythera
Profession: Elite Knight
Level: 183

Posts: 146


So if you want to sneak someone and then trap, then your team come to kill him/her...

there would be a chance to stay trapping?

he would swap and run away if you atack him?
even if you dont atack he will simply Log out?

theres more ways to trap someone but inflicts more work

Reject this swapping mode

;~
________________
Do not try to do this at home
17.09.2010 20:29:28
Quote Post #28495017

 
Lord Shefer

Inhabitant of Valoria
Profession: Master Sorcerer
Level: 177

Posts: 44


Not signed. Trapping is a part of the game, if you cant handle it move to non pvp. this is a biiig thing in the war pvps, dont destroy it.
17.09.2010 20:58:42
Quote Post #28495223

 
Dyrave

Inhabitant of Vinera
Profession: Royal Paladin
Level: 199

Posts: 240


Trapping if one of the few things that needs skills nowadays, please do not ruin it with this, atleast not on hardcore pvp world

anyways it will be kinda useless, since your doing this to prevent massive amounts of noobs trapping for higher lvls to kill them, and this dont apply on hardcore pvp sice you can just use an areaspell and they'll be dead.

Cesar~
________________
20:42 Vicblood [35]: ur better then chuck norris and jesus put together
20:42 Vicblood [35]: if chuck norris and jesus had a baby u would be born


17.09.2010 21:17:43
Quote Post #28495339

 
Breganait

Inhabitant of Rubera
Profession: Sorcerer
Level: 106

Posts: 146
Thumbs down 

Absolutely one of the worst ideas for an update...This would only encourage people to quit even more, by ridding one of the main skills/strategies involved with PvP.

For the people who like this idea,(maybe cause they get trapped 24/7) shouldn't be playing on a PvP/PvP-E world to begin with.


I Do Not approve this idea.
17.09.2010 23:56:34
Quote Post #28496480

 
Helosso

Inhabitant of Askara
Profession: Sorcerer
Level: 133

Rybson of the Katida (Rampage)

Posts: 490


It will actually destroy the last thing available in tibia's pvp - traping. Cipsoft already managed to destroy pvp servers, so i am sorry to enfo players cuz this update wil kinda destroy their server as well. I also can't belive that somoeone who created best pvp game ever can't admit own mistakes and is fallin down every update even deeper. When i started playin this game tibia was known as really entertain pvp game not cookies eating game as you are trying to promote it now.

I have nothing against rpg players however the people you should really take care of are the pvpers cuz they used to be the ones spendin a lot of cash and supporting your company.

Disgusted customer.

/R
________________
Ex - Intermission
Ex - Sophisticated Society
Ex - Rusha Dom
Ex - Leader of Filthy Few
18.09.2010 00:16:15
Quote Post #28496622

 
Magus Firefly

Inhabitant of Refugia
Profession: Master Sorcerer
Level: 225

Smilodon of the Sixth Extinction

Posts: 5151


Hi

Originally posted by Helosso on 18.09.2010 00:16:15:
> It will actually destroy the last thing available in
> tibia's pvp - traping. Cipsoft already managed to
> destroy pvp servers, so i am sorry to enfo players
> cuz this update wil kinda destroy their server as
> well. I also can't belive that somoeone who created
> best pvp game ever can't admit own mistakes and is
> fallin down every update even deeper. When i started
> playin this game tibia was known as really entertain
> pvp game not cookies eating game as you are trying to
> promote it now.
>
> I have nothing against rpg players however the people
> you should really take care of are the pvpers cuz
> they used to be the ones spendin a lot of cash and
> supporting your company.
>
> Disgusted customer.
>
> /R

I must admit that Im still wondering how all of you pvp heros love the current system, where you cant do anything if you are trapped a some low level noob chars. If you kill them you are justified killed, if not you die.

Thats not a good pvp thats a pain.

I do understand that "trapping is an art" and thats fully ok and should remain in game. But the swapping feature will be interesting for nearly all sort of players, the peaceful ones and the agressive ones!

It can and will be used regularly in order to reach someone who you want to kill for example.

This feature gives some new tactics to think about which is great.

Most who write here dont really make any tests, just see one high level escaping a trap from a fully unorganised trap or random players and think they saw a "prove" that this feature is bad.

Edit:

And it has nothing to do with RPG players. The main point was to avoid noob char interference into wars.
________________
Solve the depot trashing problem
18.09.2010 00:45:35
Edited by Magus Firefly
on 18.09.2010 00:46:31
Quote Post #28496812

 
Helosso

Inhabitant of Askara
Profession: Sorcerer
Level: 133

Rybson of the Katida (Rampage)

Posts: 490


Did i ever said i love the current system ? Obviously i didn't. I hated it from the start. It made majority of my mates retired what is the reason i quited myself one mounth ago. And what swaps gonna bring? it will only destroy defences and make loosing side not able to win. All you can do atm if you got smaller team is sneak and then sacriface one of you mates(that took last shot) as m waller or fix subchar rdy to m wall you off for 15 mins. About being traped by low levels i find it somehow pvp not to let getin yourselve lured or pushed to some traps, however when it comes to warmode battles i do agree with you that swaps are a good thing. When i heared theres gonna be pvp update i thought they gonna improve the war mode so people would not be able to leave war etc thus i considered buying prem once again. So let me know if i am not mistaken with that swaps things.

Best regards,
/R
________________
Ex - Intermission
Ex - Sophisticated Society
Ex - Rusha Dom
Ex - Leader of Filthy Few
18.09.2010 01:25:22
Edited by Helosso
on 18.09.2010 01:26:50
Quote Post #28497070

 
Ed Hardly

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Master Sorcerer
Level: 122

Vice Leader of the Fifth Sin

Posts: 185


This is by far the most stupid feature ever.

Reason of why I retired and stoped buying pacc.

Hope the old PVP ENFORCED servers come back someday..
________________
22:25 Jowix [20]: IM BACK
18.09.2010 01:32:29
Quote Post #28497111

 
Nino Valentine

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Sorcerer
Level: 27

Venokagure of the Fimbulvetr

Posts: 121


I think it was cipsoft who said. "hey lets introduce aol, and blessings into dolera and delete the exp gained from players, that way we will have a more populated dolera". and now swap mode you gotta be kidding me. with the rune delay and the no trapping how are we going to kill down a level 130 ek. or a 200 pally thats stupid. ur ruining everything. but gratz i can see 28,000 people online nice keep it going...
________________
Selling Infinite Amount of Holy Orchids msg Ike Valentine or Slyg Valentine
18.09.2010 01:56:45
Quote Post #28497260

 
Sorcerer Enraged

Inhabitant of Balera
Profession: Master Sorcerer
Level: 139

Homies of the Bregan Daerthe (Manozorininho)

Posts: 115


i seriously hope this isnt implemented (which of course it will be because cipsoft doesn't care about the players anymore) on test server it was almost impossible to kill high level ek or paladin because they move like 15 sqm through trapping people and escape its like lol this is rediculous...
________________
College students use big words.

DISKO TIBIA NOOOAAWW!!!!
18.09.2010 02:26:42
Quote Post #28497412

 
Feny Garyoris

Inhabitant of Zanera
Profession: Sorcerer
Level: 156

Member of the Imperiumm

Posts: 357


Originally posted by Magus Firefly on 18.09.2010 00:45:35:
> Hi
>
> Originally posted by Helosso on 18.09.2010
> 00:16:15
:
> > It will actually destroy the last thing available
> in
> > tibia's pvp - traping. Cipsoft already managed to
> > destroy pvp servers, so i am sorry to enfo players
> > cuz this update wil kinda destroy their server as
> > well. I also can't belive that somoeone who
> created
> > best pvp game ever can't admit own mistakes and is
> > fallin down every update even deeper. When i
> started
> > playin this game tibia was known as really
> entertain
> > pvp game not cookies eating game as you are trying
> to
> > promote it now.
> >
> > I have nothing against rpg players however the
> people
> > you should really take care of are the pvpers cuz
> > they used to be the ones spendin a lot of cash and
> > supporting your company.
> >
> > Disgusted customer.
> >
> > /R
>
> I must admit that Im still wondering how all of you
> pvp heros love the current system, where you cant do
> anything if you are trapped a some low level noob
> chars. If you kill them you are justified killed, if
> not you die.
>
> Thats not a good pvp thats a pain.
>
> I do understand that "trapping is an art" and thats
> fully ok and should remain in game. But the swapping
> feature will be interesting for nearly all sort of
> players, the peaceful ones and the agressive ones!
>
> It can and will be used regularly in order to reach
> someone who you want to kill for example.
>
> This feature gives some new tactics to think about
> which is great.
>
> Most who write here dont really make any tests, just
> see one high level escaping a trap from a fully
> unorganised trap or random players and think they saw
> a "prove" that this feature is bad.
>
> Edit:
>
> And it has nothing to do with RPG players. The main
> point was to avoid noob char interference into wars.

I agree with u that now its bad, but make it worse will solve something lol?

DO NOT IMPLEMENT IT IM BEGGING U GUYS LOL.
________________
Yours,
Fenek the "King of Venore".
Don't give us 20 unjusts for killing 1 guy!
Tibian Age Outfit
18.09.2010 02:38:49
Quote Post #28497469

 
Dark Chilean

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Sorcerer
Level: 69

Posts: 21


In hardcore PvP i think this should be just in protection zone (depots,Temp) because out of pz you can fight and that is the concept of hardcore PvP
________________
Chilean For Ever

Encourage Hardcore PvP!
18.09.2010 02:50:29
Quote Post #28497505

 
Graskary

Inhabitant of Inferna
Profession: Master Sorcerer
Level: 78

One of the Enlightenment (Lucas)

Posts: 2


Hey, don't make people stop this game. This is the worst idea ever. You already took getting exp. from players out of hardcore-pvp that made a lot of people stop. So, please, it's enough, don't do that.
18.09.2010 02:56:21
Quote Post #28497529

 
Guardakan

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Master Sorcerer
Level: 103

Legend of the Deadly

Posts: 544


Originally posted by Linkirvana on 17.09.2010 12:00:28:
> > cip eventually could affect population of dolera in
> a
> > good way if it was not implemented since every
> single
> > player who doesnt like it would play a pvp-e
> server.
>
> I consider the chances of that basicly none, since
> you guys will be there waiting with your combobots -
> as it has been since as long as I can remember.
>

you are ignorant.

> > edit : i answered your questions that you ask on
> > every thread but this one. gave you plenty of
> > very, very strong/good/solid
> arguments
.
> > if you do not listen to us (pvp-e players) and
> > implement this, it pretty much means you dont care
> a
> > damn second about us.
>
> I just debunked basicly all of your arguments, both
> your examples were basicly shit and irrelevant to the
> problem at hand, which is that swapping according to
> you has a negative effect on the gameplay. The first
> point you raise doesn't even apply because of the
> ability to simply log out, the second point you raise
> is irrelevant because it's about speed advantages of
> people's levels.

swap out only possible if some1 puts red square on you. one of the noobs traping him has to be level 15 and crosshair shoot him a LMM

>
> I could name another thousand examples where speed is
> the key factor to killing someone - this 1 is not any
> different.
18.09.2010 03:41:00
Quote Post #28497672

 
Guardakan

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Master Sorcerer
Level: 103

Legend of the Deadly

Posts: 544


Originally posted by Linkirvana on 17.09.2010 11:59:50:
[...]
> I also see another big advantage: the possibility of
> escape without having to solo kill the people around
> you (Which is mostly the case when you get e.g.
> sneaked)

A) dont get traped

B) be wise where you lvl to help u doing A

C)if you get sneaked as a low level, traped or not = death

if you get sneaked as a high level, traped = death, swap out = escape

where's the balance?

>
> To me that sounds like it adds a whole different
> dynamic to the whole PvP situation, an interesting
> dynamic making it harder to kill and easier to
> escape.
>
> And since killing is a whole lot easier than dying I
> think that balances things out a bit.

no, escaping is easier than killing. if YOU get trapped cuz u dont understand what you needa do to avoid getting traped. your trouble... go learn how to pvp (which is how to not get trapped nowadays... only thing defining PVP)

>
> > case 1 :::
> >
[...]
>
> There's just 1 very, very, veeery small detail you
> miss here: player A can simply log out, no problems
> at all.

swap out only works with 1 guy red boxing you. now lets say im on a level 15 +, i can just crosshair a LMM on the guy every minute so he cannot log, but still cant swap out

>
[...] and simply survives
> > (level 80s cannot catch him)
>
> The dude's higher leveled, so it requires more tactic
> - you are claiming it will be literally impossible to
> kill anyone at all after this update, but you seem to
> forget that there's still plenty of tactics to take
> down someone, even in a situation like this.

ye but all im saying is that it advantages super high levels and disadvantages low levels (levle 80 getting sneaked is dead anyways like i said. level 200 with swap out escapes almost no matter what).

>
> > if u put it in the other way around, the level 80
> > gets traped by the level 200. he swaps out,
> > "escapes", but still can NEVER out run the level
> 200
> > and ends up dieing.
> >
> > ... not helping the good players at all
>
> Why are in your scenario the low levels always the
> good guys? In my opinion that's the
> advantage/disadvantage of your level - you run
> faster/slower.

high level already have tons of advantages and tools to help them (hit more, more hitpoints, more mana, more caps to have more supplies on them).

> > using this to trap players (surround yourself by
> your
> > friends, + the guy you want to trap, swap with him
> > and than move and let only 1 square free so he can
> > move... cant swap out and the swap out actually
> got
> > him traped).
>
> So there you have it, you just answered your own
> problem with the level 80's killing the level 200's,
> use it smart and his ass is yours.
>

lets say im the level 200 ::: i put a magic wall besides me and swap out with one of my killers to run away.

coming back to the fact that it disadvantages any low level ::: if im traped like that on a level 80 im dead before to even shoot that magic wall by me.

[...]
> > PVP dynamics, wars, battles, capacity to trap
> players
> > (which is meant to be the last thing pvp means...
> > because lets be honest... the only thing that
> define
> > pvp nowadays is "avoid getting traped and trap
> > players". basically hurts the whole gameplay.
>
> Like I said before it's easier to kill than get
> killed, so with this change it balances things out a
> bit more in my opinion.

you must be a very bad player to say its easier to kill rofl. it was easier to kill with the 1 second rune delay. now its already a pain in the~, and now its gonna be impossible to kill high levels.

but its allright. as a protestation we'll all stop protecting new player on our servers and kill any guy on our screen instead of just giving them a chance. reduce our population from 100 players to even less... 80ish lol (for the time left on my premium that is... after that i quit rofl)
18.09.2010 03:51:43
Quote Post #28497696

 
Chipirindingui

Inhabitant of Solera
Profession: Elite Knight
Level: 177

Inner Circle of the Castlings (Muted)

Posts: 1469


You shouldnt be able to swap if you have pz-locked, that way you will be able to escape from pk teams.
Originally posted by Magus Firefly on 18.09.2010 00:45:35:

> I must admit that Im still wondering how all of you
> pvp heros love the current system, where you cant do
> anything if you are trapped a some low level noob
> chars. If you kill them you are justified killed, if
> not you die.
>
> Thats not a good pvp thats a pain.
>
> I do understand that "trapping is an art" and thats
> fully ok and should remain in game. But the swapping
> feature will be interesting for nearly all sort of
> players, the peaceful ones and the agressive ones!
>
________________
Waiting for life to be good to you, just because you're a good person is like hoping that a bull don't ram you just because you're a vegeterian.
18.09.2010 03:53:55
Quote Post #28497707

 
Guard Fear

Inhabitant of Malvera
Profession: Master Sorcerer
Level: 62

Posts: 37


Originally posted by Chipirindingui on 18.09.2010 03:53:55:
> You shouldnt be able to swap if you have pz-locked,
> that way you will be able to escape from pk teams.

they wont listen to us, we all know it.

> Originally posted by Magus Firefly on 18.09.2010
> 00:45:35
:
>
> > I must admit that Im still wondering how all of
> you
> > pvp heros love the current system, where you cant
> do
> > anything if you are trapped a some low level noob
> > chars. If you kill them you are justified killed,
> if
> > not you die.

> >
> > Thats not a good pvp thats a pain.
> >
> > I do understand that "trapping is an art" and
> thats
> > fully ok and should remain in game. But the
> swapping
> > feature will be interesting for nearly all sort of
> > players, the peaceful ones and the agressive ones!
> >

ye but on HARDCORE PVP, we dont get "justified killed" ... making this feature useless since we can kill as many players as we want.
18.09.2010 03:57:57
Quote Post #28497725

 

Página 22:

Souls Clown

Inhabitant of Grimera
Profession: Knight
Level: 28

Posts: 2


What will happen with the wars??

Trap = THE MAIN THING TO KILL AN ENEMY.

I tested this worse thing with my knight 160, so the conclusion is:

- One knight with some ssa and pots/sio is UNKILLABLE.

I don't die any time, with some people attacking me.

I think that this update will be for Defficient Tibian Players ((( COTOCOS, in br. )))

Please Cip Soft, remove this WORSE thing.

The most funny thing to do in the war is trap an enemy then shoot and kill him, no matter what vocation he's. But with this update will be very, very, very hard to do it.

Please remove it for your own success and for not loss many tibian players!
Thanks.
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18.09.2010 05:19:22
Edited by Souls Clown
on 18.09.2010 05:22:33
Quote Post #28497952

 
Emzy Thainheart

Inhabitant of Titania
Profession: Elite Knight
Level: 187

Vice Leader of the Retaliation (Rambo)

Posts: 4926


I guess it is still possible to just swap yourself into the enemy defense? Such as joke lol xD
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18.09.2010 06:03:41
Quote Post #28498050

 
Geophic Hane

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Master Sorcerer
Level: 97

Loony of the Dancy Time

Posts: 47


NO SWAPPING ON HARDCORE PVP


its going to be impossible to kill a decent level if this is put into place. Sadly almost everyone uses a bot to put on ssa's and all that(not me of course), so they can easily get out of any trap..

Put it on open pvp, youve already ruined those servers, who care if you mess em up a little more. Just leave hardcore alone.
18.09.2010 06:47:19
Edited by Geophic Hane
on 18.09.2010 06:47:56
Quote Post #28498149

 
Aufiduss

Inhabitant of Thoria
Profession: Sorcerer
Level: 94

Posts: 5
Thumbs down 

THIS THING IS BIG FAILURE, SOON BEFORE KILLING SB WE WILL BE OBLIGATED TO ASK HIS PARENTS WHETHER WE CAN.
18.09.2010 11:51:22
Edited by Aufiduss
on 18.09.2010 11:53:52
Quote Post #28499128

 
Aleppe

Inhabitant of Nerana
Profession: Elder Druid
Level: 147

Posts: 5847


Quoting myself:

The 1st thing that one needs to note when talking about swaps, is that they come from a Focus Group discussion meant to find solutions to noobchars / 3rd part interferences in both skull/war system combats.

We have talked about different solutions: some couldn't be taken into consideration due to technical problems, others due to their possible abuses.

At the end of the 1st discussion, the main proposal to solve noobchars/3rd part interferences weren't swaps, but a feature called "knockout skull". Unfortunately it hasn't received the agreement of CIP's Gods due to its complicated nature, hence we were asked to try new ways.

Then Swaps appeared, and my 1st thought was: we are meant to find solutions just for noobchars/3rd part interferences, not to nerf all traps, given that a high level can't be fragged without trapping it, and I've fought against this feature until the private TS was released.

I've spent the first day of the private test alone multiclienteling several characters (allowed on TS), given that I had ranted vs best part of Focus Group for a long time (and not just about swaps): that was my luck. I could test this feature not being influenced by anybody thoughts / behaviours, like playing chess alone: my strategy vs my own strategy, nothing else.

These are some my notes of that day:
  • I use swaps more for aggressive purposes than for defensive ones (more with knight/pally)
  • I use mws mostly to trap myself than to trap the enemy
  • I use swaps to defend with mages and to attack with ek/rp
  • Must have some xxxxxxx (I won't spoil it here) in EK/RP bp. Always!!
  • Potion = swap delay
  • There is a problem for chars not being able to use MW or to summon: just leave a sqm near the victim in a narrow passage PPEVPP (player, player, empty, victim, player, player)
  • Stairs do not allow players to swap: just block somebody there with the team splitted up and downstairs and he's done. Do not enter buildings nor hunting grounds with stairs while hunted!
  • Ladders, pitfalls and holes work differently: downstairs one can swap. One-way holes are deadly!
  • If one fights back he's done: do not use soulfire/fields and attack just few targets in the same minute (2-3 max)
  • I can't swap if a player is xxxxxxxxxxx (I won't spoil it here)
  • I can change a HL stack with a noobchars one using swaps
  • Some NPCs can be used to trap people, eg thais east gate
  • xxxxxxxxxxx (I won't spoil it here) are traps! Do not use them while hunted!
  • Using any field below the char allows you to swap, and it allows you to swap until the condition is gone
  • Swapping can be used to mark the enemy with a white skull (still possible even with last patch, even if harder)
  • While trapped do not swap diagonal
  • If I swap with a char he can't swap back if not with a delay: narrow passages = death
During the next days I've found even more things about swaps, but I think that what I've written here is enough to put you on the right way.


Aleppe
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18.09.2010 12:32:31
Quote Post #28499294

 
Polski Ninja

Inhabitant of Guardia
Profession: Paladin
Level: 126

Loyal of the Finito

Posts: 222


Hmm I don't remember my password from 23 of August cos I change it every time I log in (security reasons).
Is there any chance I can join Test Server using my current password?
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Cause I'm scared of their controlling crowds

18.09.2010 12:39:11
Quote Post #28499325

 
Linkirvana

Inhabitant of Libera
Profession: Paladin
Level: 29

Posts: 696


I have been incredibly lazy and haven't bothered to even log on the test server at all. I am curious though about some of the things you say here, since I didn't quite get everything.

Originally posted by Aleppe on 18.09.2010 12:32:31:

> These are some my notes of that day:
  • I use
    > swaps more for aggressive purposes than for defensive
    > ones (more with knight/pally)

    I don't really understand, assuming you sort of storm your enemy in a decent formation the only one needing to swap is the one getting away right?

  • I use mws mostly to
    > trap myself than to trap the enemy

    So you "unlock" the ability to swap I assume?

  • I use swaps to
    > defend with mages and to attack with ek/rp

    Well yeah, but people already do that nowadays by quickly switching around, so I don't think this is a big change.

  • Must
    > have some xxxxxxx (I won't spoil it here) in EK/RP
    > bp. Always!!

    From what I've heard fields disappear when trying to swap and the items below you don't matter, but you can swap with summons/normal creatures right? I have no idea what you're talking about here. (I was thinking dfs, desintegrates or cc runes)

  • Potion = swap delay

    That's a good thing in my opinion, price you pay for trying to swap out.

  • There is a
    > problem for chars not being able to use MW or to
    > summon: just leave a sqm near the victim in a narrow
    > passage PPEVPP (player, player, empty, victim,
    > player, player)

    Yeah I've read about this, that sounds pretty gay for high leveled knights, I'm not sure how this could be solved though (Unless you'd like, make swapping possible always, which I guess can be abused)

  • Stairs do not allow players to
    > swap: just block somebody there with the team
    > splitted up and downstairs and he's done. Do not
    > enter buildings nor hunting grounds with stairs while
    > hunted!

    Should definitely be changed then in my opinion, although I can't think of any situations in which this can be abused off the bat there might still be.

  • Ladders, pitfalls and holes work
    > differently: downstairs one can swap. One-way holes
    > are deadly!

    So upstairs you can't swap, but when you're downstairs you can? Why would one-way holes be deadly then? You go down, and you can swap?
    ________________
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18.09.2010 14:25:45
Quote Post #28499845

 
Linkirvana

Inhabitant of Libera
Profession: Paladin
Level: 29

Posts: 696


  • If one fights back he's done: do not
    > use soulfire/fields and attack just few targets in
    > the same minute (2-3 max)

    I don't really understand this, does inflicting an x amount of damage have influence on your ability to swap? I can't really think of any other reason why (Although this reason doesn't explain why not to use soulfires for example)

  • I can't swap if a player
    > is xxxxxxxxxxx (I won't spoil it here)

    You can't swap if your enemy that's killing you is doing what? I'd really like to know this one, if you can simply e.g. start dancing and avoid getting swapped with then that's a big weakness to the whole thing.

  • I can change
    > a HL stack with a noobchars one using swaps

    I have no idea what this means, you can change a high level? stack with a noobchars?? one?? using swaps??

    The last part of that sentence makes absolutely no sense at all.

  • Some
    > NPCs can be used to trap people, eg thais east
    > gate

    Lame, they should count as players.

  • xxxxxxxxxxx (I won't spoil it here) are traps!
    > Do not use them while hunted!

    Field runes? Hasting? I have no idea, there's something you can do to completely kill your ability to swap, even if you're not PZ'ed and totally getting your ass whopped?

  • Using any field below
    > the char allows you to swap, and it allows you to
    > swap until the condition is gone

    Which char? Yourself or the guy attacking you? If I get attacked and I cast a field on myself I can swap with people for aslong as Im receiving damage?

  • Swapping can be
    > used to mark the enemy with a white skull (still
    > possible even with last patch, even if
    > harder)

    Right I read something about this, if you swap sideways with someone you can somehow get a white skull, I still have no idea what the point is.

  • While trapped do not swap diagonal

    Cause of getting skull right?

  • If I
    > swap with a char he can't swap back if not with a
    > delay: narrow passages = death

    I don't get it, again are you the one attacking or getting attacked, I realize you were on both chars, but which 1 is "you" in this story? If I swap with someone attacking me he can't swap back with me without getting some very long? delay?
    ________________
    I've got something to say!

    I killed your baby today!

    It doesn't matter much to me, as long as it's fuckin' dead!
  • 18.09.2010 14:27:42
    Quote Post #28499852

     
    Magus Firefly

    Inhabitant of Refugia
    Profession: Master Sorcerer
    Level: 225

    Smilodon of the Sixth Extinction

    Posts: 5151


    Hi

    @ Linkirvana:

    a few comments:

    1. You can use swapps offensively which means you can break into a defence with swapping
    2. If you use field rune below yourself it counts as pvp damage!

    So you can self trap yourself with magic walls, selfshoot with a field rune and you are allowed to swap
    3. Swapping diagonal has the same problem then walking diagonally, its slower. If you got paralyzed during that time you are dead.
    4. fields and soulfire blocks you to enter protection zone which is nota good idea if you want to escape a trap.
    Im a pvp noob, so not sure if this one is right:
    It could be possible that even if someone attacks you first and you then use a soulfire rune on him, he will loose his white skull if he stops attacking and the next damage he gets from your soulfire rune gives you a white skull. Should in principle also count for field runes.
    5. About the delays:
    - if you attack someone first! (so you are the agressor) you cant swap for 1 minute
    - if you swap with someone who is allowed to swap back, he has a delay or 5 seconds to do this swap back.
    ________________
    Solve the depot trashing problem
    18.09.2010 15:39:09
    Quote Post #28500176

     
    Linkirvana

    Inhabitant of Libera
    Profession: Paladin
    Level: 29

    Posts: 696


    Originally posted by Magus Firefly on 18.09.2010 15:39:09:
    > Hi
    >
    > @ Linkirvana:
    >
    > a few comments:
    >
    > 1. You can use swapps offensively which means you can
    > break into a defence with swapping

    Yes, but only if the people in the defense are inflicting PvP damage right?

    > 2. If you use field rune below yourself it counts as
    > pvp damage!

    I knew that, that's why I was confused by some of Aleppe's remarks

    > So you can self trap yourself with magic walls,
    > selfshoot with a field rune and you are allowed to
    > swap

    You take PZ though, so this doesn't really sound like a good tactic

    > 3. Swapping diagonal has the same problem then
    > walking diagonally, its slower. If you got paralyzed
    > during that time you are dead.

    Well yeah I figured as much, but its like saying that walking diagonally = death, which isn't all true, I expected some sort of extra long delay from what I got from Aleppe's post.

    > 4. fields and soulfire blocks you to enter protection
    > zone which is nota good idea if you want to escape a
    > trap.

    Well, I'm assuming you're getting attacked by just random people, which means they got a white skull on you, which means you can attack back without any negative drawbacks (Including soulfire)

    > Im a pvp noob, so not sure if this one is right:
    > It could be possible that even if someone attacks you
    > first and you then use a soulfire rune on him, he
    > will loose his white skull if he stops attacking and
    > the next damage he gets from your soulfire rune gives
    > you a white skull. Should in principle also count for
    > field runes.

    Think for a second about what you said here, you can't lose a skull without losing PZ, and since you can't lose PZ while soulfired you can't get rid of your skull and still be soulfired.

    > 5. About the delays:
    > - if you attack someone first! (so you are the
    > agressor) you cant swap for 1 minute

    Is this like a pz lock? As in, is it possible to postpone this swap lock?

    > - if you swap with someone who is allowed to swap
    > back, he has a delay or 5 seconds to do this swap
    > back.

    Aight, well, this doesn't really clear up some of the questions I had for Aleppe.
    ________________
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    I killed your baby today!

    It doesn't matter much to me, as long as it's fuckin' dead!
    18.09.2010 16:41:30
    Quote Post #28500509

     
    Magus Firefly

    Inhabitant of Refugia
    Profession: Master Sorcerer
    Level: 225

    Smilodon of the Sixth Extinction

    Posts: 5151


    Hi

    Originally posted by Linkirvana on 18.09.2010 16:41:30:
    > Originally posted by Magus Firefly on 18.09.2010
    > 15:39:09
    :
    > > Hi
    > >
    > > @ Linkirvana:
    > >
    > > a few comments:
    > >
    > > 1. You can use swapps offensively which means you
    > can
    > > break into a defence with swapping
    >
    > Yes, but only if the people in the defense are
    > inflicting PvP damage right?
    >
    > > 2. If you use field rune below yourself it counts
    > as
    > > pvp damage!
    >
    > I knew that, that's why I was confused by some of
    > Aleppe's remarks
    >
    > > So you can self trap yourself with magic walls,
    > > selfshoot with a field rune and you are allowed to
    > > swap
    >
    > You take PZ though, so this doesn't really sound like
    > a good tactic
    >

    Dont forget, we spoke about the agressive way to swap! So you dont care about geting pz lock, because you are on the way to kill someone, where you will of course get a pz lock.

    Agressive means here swap to reach the player who you want to kill, and not actively activating the swapping conditions!

    > > 3. Swapping diagonal has the same problem then
    > > walking diagonally, its slower. If you got
    > paralyzed
    > > during that time you are dead.
    >
    > Well yeah I figured as much, but its like saying that
    > walking diagonally = death, which isn't all true, I
    > expected some sort of extra long delay from what I
    > got from Aleppe's post.

    hmm I would say every moment counts. If you loose a little more time when you cant heal it might mean your death. Like written swapping has allready a delay on potion use, every moment more should be avoided.

    >
    > > 4. fields and soulfire blocks you to enter
    > protection
    > > zone which is nota good idea if you want to escape
    > a
    > > trap.
    >
    > Well, I'm assuming you're getting attacked by just
    > random people, which means they got a white skull on
    > you, which means you can attack back without any
    > negative drawbacks (Including soulfire)
    >

    A random group, without any strong guild/friends behind them is no problem, but if they have I would for sure avoid everything which increases the logout block.

    So at the test server you can savely do it, but I would avoid it for sure in a real open pvp world.

    > > Im a pvp noob, so not sure if this one is right:
    > > It could be possible that even if someone attacks
    > you
    > > first and you then use a soulfire rune on him, he
    > > will loose his white skull if he stops attacking
    > and
    > > the next damage he gets from your soulfire rune
    > gives
    > > you a white skull. Should in principle also count
    > for
    > > field runes.
    >
    > Think for a second about what you said here, you
    > can't lose a skull without losing PZ, and since you
    > can't lose PZ while soulfired you can't get rid of
    > your skull and still be soulfired.
    >

    True. Like I said, im a pvp noob

    One example:

    Alecto Misc tried the "I look afk in a narrow passage" trap. Soon a random pk comes and attacks him. Then Alecto swaps and the target is trapped till death (of course soon others came and helped to kill the white skull).

    This will be a deadly trap for all who look for an easy kill.

    I hope Aleppe will answer you soon
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    Solve the depot trashing problem
    18.09.2010 17:09:08
    Quote Post #28500639

     
    Kelfen

    Inhabitant of Dolera
    Profession: Elite Knight
    Level: 109

    Wacky of the Dancy Time

    Posts: 147


    please for the sake of not making the pvp system messed up do not implement on hardcore pvp... I honestly will just stop my subscription if this is implemented. part of the fun is traping someone it can be chalenging and you can screw up somewhat easily I have seen many times. I love being called a ninja with skill (escape) outwitting my opponent but this swap thing is just crap....
    ________________
    Kelfen
    18.09.2010 17:27:47
    Quote Post #28500752

     
    Aleppe

    Inhabitant of Nerana
    Profession: Elder Druid
    Level: 147

    Posts: 5847


    I'll limit myself to observe that following what I've written I've managed to mark 100 players (just ask around, many players counted them with me) with a Red Skull (10 am to 12 am and 13.30 pm to 17 pm) dying just 28 times (atm this char is lv 139 on TS), and having fragged several people without resulting marked at all. The rest of unjusts? I've used the swap trick to mark chars

    Sep 18 2010, 16:26:42 CEST Killed Juna Falene at Level 142 ok
    Sep 18 2010, 16:25:35 CEST Killed Ulf Da'Doom at Level 228 ok
    Sep 18 2010, 16:18:59 CEST Killed Zicken at Level 88 ok
    Sep 18 2010, 16:18:48 CEST Killed Relsiegpk at Level 54 ok
    Sep 18 2010, 16:16:10 CEST Killed Berzerk Tamer at Level 69 assisted
    Sep 18 2010, 16:09:15 CEST Killed Bura Aina at Level 77 ok
    Sep 18 2010, 16:02:56 CEST Killed Dalaras Tarus at Level 285 ok
    Sep 18 2010, 15:54:52 CEST Killed Qualz at Level 44 ok
    Sep 18 2010, 15:54:23 CEST Killed Stram at Level 246 ok
    Sep 18 2010, 15:53:10 CEST Killed Sante angel at Level 183 ok
    Sep 18 2010, 15:51:46 CEST Killed Trollpackan at Level 150 ok
    Sep 18 2010, 15:50:48 CEST Killed Cloud'Angel at Level 133 ok
    Sep 18 2010, 15:43:29 CEST Killed Astroq at Level 26 ok
    Sep 18 2010, 15:43:22 CEST Killed Sky Of Heart at Level 30 ok
    Sep 18 2010, 15:43:08 CEST Killed Massano at Level 114 ok
    Sep 18 2010, 15:42:56 CEST Killed Kavios Rockman at Level 89 ok
    Sep 18 2010, 15:42:29 CEST Killed Zuczek Sorcerer at Level 47 ok
    Sep 18 2010, 15:40:16 CEST Killed Kavios Rockman at Level 89 ok
    Sep 18 2010, 15:30:30 CEST Killed Rophixen at Level 185 ok
    Sep 18 2010, 15:28:04 CEST Killed Dekar from Rusalka at Level 41 ok
    Sep 18 2010, 15:25:10 CEST Killed Shephirot at Level 160 assisted
    Sep 18 2010, 15:24:33 CEST Killed Waleczny Rychu at Level 141 ok
    Sep 18 2010, 15:24:09 CEST Killed Aantares at Level 202 ok
    Sep 18 2010, 15:18:50 CEST Killed Thasi Druid at Level 45 ok
    Sep 18 2010, 15:14:14 CEST Killed Ab Normaal at Level 60 ok
    Sep 18 2010, 15:12:33 CEST Killed Sir Cylon at Level 171 ok
    Sep 18 2010, 15:12:23 CEST Killed Fiskflens at Level 8 ok
    Sep 18 2010, 15:09:20 CEST Killed Giryn at Level 112 ok
    Sep 18 2010, 15:05:45 CEST Killed Dragour at Level 108 ok
    Sep 18 2010, 14:50:30 CEST Killed Sky Of Heart at Level 34 ok
    Sep 18 2010, 14:50:12 CEST Killed Metyshia at Level 42 ok
    Sep 18 2010, 14:49:06 CEST Killed Respeta Rodrique at Level 53 ok
    Sep 18 2010, 14:36:31 CEST Killed Tommy Jensen at Level 57 ok
    Sep 18 2010, 14:27:32 CEST Killed Bron Dalan at Level 40 ok
    Sep 18 2010, 14:25:23 CEST Killed Blas Koras at Level 218 ok
    Sep 18 2010, 14:15:55 CEST Killed Odliczam combo at Level 64 ok
    Sep 18 2010, 14:10:49 CEST Killed Hoppa woppa at Level 56 ok
    Sep 18 2010, 11:06:03 CEST Killed Nicke Logan at Level 210 ok
    Sep 18 2010, 11:01:58 CEST Killed Trollsnor at Level 106 ok
    Sep 18 2010, 10:51:14 CEST Killed Boski Dzony at Level 61 ok
    Sep 18 2010, 10:38:19 CEST Killed Uaitpradnik at Level 185 ok
    Sep 18 2010, 10:36:54 CEST Killed Aleppe at Level 143 ok
    Sep 18 2010, 10:33:26 CEST Killed Aleppe at Level 143 ok
    Sep 18 2010, 10:20:24 CEST Killed Mistic Dark Templar at Level 33 ok
    Sep 18 2010, 10:19:18 CEST Killed Mistic Dark Templar at Level 33 ok
    Sep 18 2010, 10:14:05 CEST Killed Lord kaman at Level 32 ok
    Sep 18 2010, 10:14:01 CEST Killed Zilawin Celsemo at Level 102 ok

    Resuming: I've managed to mark 100 players with a red skull, fragging several of them all justified and having wasted 7 levels and 560k gps for twist of fate.

    Now, regardless of what you think about what I've written in my provious post, would you really like me to land in your server being you a griefers guild leader?


    Aleppe
    18.09.2010 17:28:09
    Edited by Aleppe
    on 18.09.2010 17:38:01
    Quote Post #28500756

     
    Alecto Misc

    Inhabitant of Danubia
    Profession: Knight
    Level: 17

    Posts: 2198


    Originally posted by Magus Firefly on 18.09.2010 15:39:09:

    > Im a pvp noob, so not sure if this one is right:
    > It could be possible that even if someone attacks you
    > first and you then use a soulfire rune on him, he
    > will loose his white skull if he stops attacking and
    > the next damage he gets from your soulfire rune gives
    > you a white skull.

    I thought that when someone had a white skull, it would not go away while either they are attacking OR while they are being attacked.
    A soul fire rune should count as an attack to make them KEEP that white skull.
    18.09.2010 17:36:32
    Quote Post #28500807

     
    Magus Firefly

    Inhabitant of Refugia
    Profession: Master Sorcerer
    Level: 225

    Smilodon of the Sixth Extinction

    Posts: 5151


    Hi

    Originally posted by Alecto Misc on 18.09.2010 17:36:32:
    > Originally posted by Magus Firefly on 18.09.2010
    > 15:39:09
    :
    >
    > > Im a pvp noob, so not sure if this one is right:
    > > It could be possible that even if someone attacks
    > you
    > > first and you then use a soulfire rune on him, he
    > > will loose his white skull if he stops attacking
    > and
    > > the next damage he gets from your soulfire rune
    > gives
    > > you a white skull.
    >
    > I thought that when someone had a white skull, it
    > would not go away while either they are attacking OR
    > while they are being attacked.
    > A soul fire rune should count as an attack to make
    > them KEEP that white skull.

    You are right, like I started, Im a pvp noob
    ________________
    Solve the depot trashing problem
    18.09.2010 19:44:50
    Quote Post #28501614

     
    Cuttah

    Inhabitant of Inferna
    Profession: Elite Knight
    Level: 160

    One of the Enlightenment (Ian)

    Posts: 286


    I dont agree with this, I think thats really unnecessary, it'll destroy pvp enfo servers.
    Dont include pvp e on this, seriously.
    18.09.2010 19:50:40
    Quote Post #28501650

     
    Jaksus the Outcast

    Inhabitant of Danubia
    Profession: Sorcerer
    Level: 13

    Posts: 58


    With assistance from Aleppe I've managed to see how the swapping works and I find it good. Both offensive and defensive potential, some ways to gain additional benefits with deeper knowledge of how things are... all good.

    Not sure about making others skulled with this, but I somehow think it wont be a popular thing. Though it worries me a bit that one could abuse this knowledge/skill against people who have no idea how it happens or even that it is possible.

    In general I like it and it will make pvp-skill and pvp-knowledge a bit more important in tibia, once again.
    18.09.2010 20:19:32
    Quote Post #28501807

     
    Flamhethrower

    Inhabitant of Dolera
    Profession: Master Sorcerer
    Level: 86

    Flammen of the Fires Of Heaven

    Posts: 5
    NOOOOOOOOOO !

    SAY NO TO Swapping Position !
    18.09.2010 21:48:12
    Quote Post #28502367

     
    Mathenus

    Inhabitant of Nebula
    Profession: Elite Knight
    Level: 123

    Posts: 375


    Lol at Aleppe posting on noob chars to say about himself


    I don't wanna hear a non-pvp guy talking about pvp, neither the rest of us, got it?

    also a Lol for cip for ignoring the majority and faking they do not see we don't want the swap
    ________________
    /Thaigon
    Made in Brasil.
    18.09.2010 22:45:28
    Quote Post #28502713

     
    Enerugi

    Inhabitant of Dolera
    Profession: Master Sorcerer
    Level: 42

    Wacky of the Dancy Time

    Posts: 2
    @Cip

    On open pvp servers (skull system) i understand people trap you & your either forced to DIE. or to kill the noobs & get redskull \ blackskull. aka known as Blackskull traps.

    On dolera\inferna (hardcore pvp servers) we dont need this implemented.
    No1 on dolera does these traps or on inferna.
    If people surround u in a battle & trap u in thats known as "Nice pvp skills"
    I practiced this on the test server. I trapped a 128 master sorcerer. He got out because we trappd him & surrounded him.
    On Dolera\Inferna. (hardcore pvp) packin in on some1 so they cant go anywhere is the Key to killin 200+ mages.
    such as Houdiny \ Elrundhir. You CANNOT Kill them if you do not successfully trap them. Now your makin it to where they can get out???

    On Open pvp servers i agree this would be a phenomenal idea. But on Hardcore pvp servers. its makin it that much harder for the good skilled pvpers such as myself to kill our enemies because there so high level. CIP You did make dolera\inferna (hardcore pvp serversz) because u wanted the guys who like to 'pvp' to have fun on your Game TIBIA Correct? Smaller teams such as my team can't stand up for oursle like we use to.
    because people use bots & were highly outnumbered \ outleveled.
    You made the servers Dolera \ Inferna for "people who like to PVP"
    So Please CIP!! Do not implement this on Hardcore pvp servers.

    Kind Reguards. Enerugi. ~am not happy with this idea~
    18.09.2010 22:50:36
    Quote Post #28502737

     

    Página 23:

    Hells Rising

    Inhabitant of Amera
    Profession: Elite Knight
    Level: 130

    Pride of the Seven Sins (Avarice)

    Posts: 151


    I have one more adjustment that needs to be made with this swapping feature. Me and my buddy Mystic'fury were killing some dude on the test server. We had him trapped but we did not fill in the spaces next to him. So to get out he abused the swapping by shooting his own magic wall behind him, then swapped places with Mystic to get out of the trap. I personally think a player should not be able to swap positions if they trapped themselves.
    ________________
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    18.09.2010 23:26:52
    Quote Post #28502921

     
    Nadalee the Monk

    Inhabitant of Lunara
    Profession: Druid
    Level: 38

    Stolt Krigare of the Slagsmaals Klubben

    Posts: 13


    just wanted to point out.

    If someone skulls on you, they can't swap with you, but they can still swap with your summons. Is this a bug?
    18.09.2010 23:41:22
    Quote Post #28502999

     
    Pa pekear

    Inhabitant of Arcania
    Profession: Elder Druid
    Level: 69

    Part of the Black Fire

    Posts: 5


    Imagine this:

    x-enemys
    o-victim
    p-fire

    PPPPP
    PXXXP
    PXOXP
    PXPXP
    PXXXP
    PPPPP


    Victim can use Swapping Position If Trapped?

    T-walls (no mw)
    8-nothing
    TTTTTTTT
    XXO8XX
    TTTTTTTT

    Victim can use Swapping Position If Trapped?
    19.09.2010 00:10:06
    Quote Post #28503183

     
    Liyn

    Inhabitant of Amera
    Profession: Elder Druid
    Level: 101

    Royal family of the Academy of Might and Magic (Dreamwalker)

    Posts: 874


    Originally posted by Pa pekear on 19.09.2010 00:10:06:
    > Imagine this:
    >
    > x-enemys
    > o-victim
    > p-fire
    >
    > PPPPP
    > PXXXP
    > PXOXP
    > PXPXP
    > PXXXP
    > PPPPP
    >
    >
    > Victim can use Swapping Position If Trapped?

    Nope, but he can put m wall on the fire field next to him and then swap.

    > T-walls (no mw)
    > 8-nothing
    > TTTTTTTT
    > XXO8XX
    > TTTTTTTT
    >
    > Victim can use Swapping Position If Trapped?

    Nope, but he can put m wall on the free sqm next to him and then swap.

    And yes, knights without 9 magic level are highly disadvantaged, especially in cases like Kaz Trap.

    Liyn
    ________________
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    18:27 Liyn [50]: and i will marry Simon the Beggar!
    18:28 Reeve [74]: level?
    19.09.2010 00:19:48
    Quote Post #28503235

     
    Emzy Lime

    Inhabitant of Nova
    Profession: Elder Druid
    Level: 72

    Noble of the Divine Intervention (Gonffs Cheese Provider)

    Posts: 213


    Just wanted to ask.. if you're trapped in a narrow alley but have 2 spots to move... can you escape? Even if you have no mwalls or anything to put in the open space..

    B = trappers
    P = trapped
    O = open space
    = = wall

    ============
    BBBBPOBBBB
    ============
    ________________
    =IF(Dump!C62="","",IF(ISERROR(LEFT(Dump!C62,FIND("(",Dump!C62,1)-1)),Dump!C62,LEFT(Dump!C62,FIND("(",Dump!C62,1)-1)))
    19.09.2010 04:04:58
    Edited by Emzy Lime
    on 19.09.2010 04:06:42
    Quote Post #28504297

     
    Dark Clouds

    Inhabitant of Pacera
    Profession: Sorcerer
    Level: 16

    Posts: 13
    Thumbs down 

    fix thing like sheep killers while trainin an many other probles like loot thief b4 worry bout any thinks else
    19.09.2010 07:25:46
    Quote Post #28504870

     
    Aleppe

    Inhabitant of Nerana
    Profession: Elder Druid
    Level: 147

    Posts: 5847


    Originally posted by Mathenus on 18.09.2010 22:45:28:
    > Lol at Aleppe posting on noob chars to say about
    > himself
    >
    >
    > I don't wanna hear a non-pvp guy talking about pvp,
    > neither the rest of us, got it?
    >

    I'm not used to use noobchars to post in boards like your noobish friends (and something tells me even you) do.

    For the rest: bla bla bla. Just log in TS and let's see what kind of pvp skills you've got.


    Aleppe
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    19.09.2010 07:26:40
    Quote Post #28504875

     
    Linkirvana

    Inhabitant of Libera
    Profession: Paladin
    Level: 29

    Posts: 696


    I swear I already posted a reply to this post, but it doesn't seem to be there, so I guess here's another attempt at that.

    Originally posted by Aleppe on 18.09.2010 17:28:09:
    > I'll limit myself to observe that following what I've
    > written I've managed to mark 100 players (just ask
    > around, many players counted them with me) with a Red
    > Skull (10 am to 12 am and 13.30 pm to 17 pm) dying
    > just 28 times (atm this char is lv 139 on TS), and
    > having fragged several people without resulting
    > marked at all. The rest of unjusts? I've used the
    > swap trick to mark chars

    Those are some pretty shocking stats, with swap trick you mean making people swap diagonally? (I still don't understand why you'd get a skull from that)

    What I'm also curious about is how this whole thing enables people to somehow get people to take 3 unjusts? It doesn't make sense - I assume you still have to actively attack and kill 3 different players before actually reaching that red skull.

    The only scenario I can think of is you had the guy you were killing in a certain spot, requiring him to use a field rune somewhere to enable switching, and you'd have 3 chars ready on a hole or something ready to drop down?

    If something like that were the case then I wouldn't really worry about it happening on the normal servers.

    > Resuming: I've managed to mark 100 players with a red
    > skull, fragging several of them all justified and
    > having wasted 7 levels and 560k gps for twist of
    > fate.

    prrrrrofit XD

    > Now, regardless of what you think about what I've
    > written in my provious post, would you really like me
    > to land in your server being you a griefers guild
    > leader?
    >
    >
    > Aleppe

    Well, probably not, but that totally depends on how hard it is to set something like this up, and how specific the area has to be (Like, if you gotta lure someone to the bottom of mnt sternum into some 1 way passage first then well, obviously it won't work as good on the real server)

    You should provide more information with these stats, because well, I explained it above, the circumstances are perhaps even more important than the stats.
    ________________
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    I killed your baby today!

    It doesn't matter much to me, as long as it's fuckin' dead!
    19.09.2010 11:03:58
    Quote Post #28505434

     
    Shatterhand

    Inhabitant of Obsidia
    Profession: Knight
    Level: 145

    Member of the Magnificent

    Posts: 733


    Originally posted by Emzy Lime on 19.09.2010 04:04:58:
    > Just wanted to ask.. if you're trapped in a narrow
    > alley but have 2 spots to move... can you escape?
    > Even if you have no mwalls or anything to put in the
    > open space..
    >
    > B = trappers
    > P = trapped
    > O = open space
    > = = wall
    >
    > ============
    > BBBBPOBBBB
    > ============

    yes you can, you need to summon a creature to fill that space an then you can swap.
    ________________
    "800 Poles would equal 8000 enemy soldiers." - Napoleon Bonaparte

    NON-PVPERS SHOULD BE SEEN AND NOT HEARD

    All Knights - We are Unbalanced?
    19.09.2010 11:47:34
    Quote Post #28505661

     
    Shatterhand

    Inhabitant of Obsidia
    Profession: Knight
    Level: 145

    Member of the Magnificent

    Posts: 733


    Originally posted by Linkirvana on 18.09.2010 14:25:45:
    >
  • Potion = swap delay
    >
    > That's a good thing in my opinion, price you pay for
    > trying to swap out.

    are you kidding? this price can be fatal for knights!
    ________________
    "800 Poles would equal 8000 enemy soldiers." - Napoleon Bonaparte

    NON-PVPERS SHOULD BE SEEN AND NOT HEARD

    All Knights - We are Unbalanced?
  • 19.09.2010 12:05:05
    Quote Post #28505748

     
    Ilizo

    Inhabitant of Azura
    Profession: Elite Knight
    Level: 237

    Swedish Hunter of the Head Hunters

    Posts: 341


    Ok.. I've been playing TS now for another hour and the only thing I can say once again is that - IT'S WAAAAY TO EASY to escape from traps, I didn't die a single time in Thais even when I were 100% trapped several times by 15+ people, it shouldn't be that easy. I simple just walked through everyone so don't come and tell me that it requires PVP skills because it DOESN'T

    And for the record we couldn't even manage to kill Tomurka (500 EK) with 50 people in Thais and everyone surrounding him and he just got healed by 1 druid and he's a NOOB.

    So seriously, it's WAY WAY WAY WAY to easy to escape from traps, I've whitnessed and tried it myself so don't come and tell me that it isn't easy.

    Ps: Quick question, are you able to swap position with other war mode players when you're fighting in a warmode?

    I really really hope not >.<

    Regards,
    Ilizo
    19.09.2010 12:39:30
    Quote Post #28505874

     
    Aleppe

    Inhabitant of Nerana
    Profession: Elder Druid
    Level: 147

    Posts: 5847


    @ Linkirvana:

    There are a lot of pvp-masters all around with spectacular manual pvp skills, and I'm sure that they are able to do and to explain it far better.

    Just find one of them. The one talking about Tomurka appears to be a valid candidate.


    Aleppe

    Ps: tell me if you want Tomurka red/black skulled: it will be a pleasure
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    19.09.2010 12:49:42
    Quote Post #28505920

     
    Ilizo

    Inhabitant of Azura
    Profession: Elite Knight
    Level: 237

    Swedish Hunter of the Head Hunters

    Posts: 341


    Originally posted by Aleppe on 19.09.2010 12:49:42:
    > @ Linkirvana:
    >
    > There are a lot of pvp-masters all around with
    > spectacular manual pvp skills, and I'm sure that they
    > are able to do and to explain it far better.
    >
    > Just find one of them. The one talking about Tomurka
    > appears to be a valid candidate.
    >
    >
    > Aleppe
    >
    > Ps: tell me if you want Tomurka red/black skulled: it
    > will be a pleasure

    Haha xD he's already red skull and I guess hes offline now ^^ I got tired of the easy swap system so I logged out as well.

    Regards,
    Ilizo
    19.09.2010 12:58:00
    Quote Post #28505956

     
    Linkirvana

    Inhabitant of Libera
    Profession: Paladin
    Level: 29

    Posts: 696


    Originally posted by Aleppe on 19.09.2010 12:49:42:
    > @ Linkirvana:
    >
    > There are a lot of pvp-masters all around with
    > spectacular manual pvp skills, and I'm sure that they
    > are able to do and to explain it far better.
    >
    > Just find one of them. The one talking about Tomurka
    > appears to be a valid candidate.
    >
    >
    > Aleppe
    >
    > Ps: tell me if you want Tomurka red/black skulled: it
    > will be a pleasure

    If you got any disrespect from my post regarding your PvP skills then I didn't mean to - I was genuinely asking some questions. (Since I sense a lot of sarcasm ;<

    I would like to learn more about this what you present as a big gap in the system.
    ________________
    I've got something to say!

    I killed your baby today!

    It doesn't matter much to me, as long as it's fuckin' dead!
    19.09.2010 13:02:56
    Quote Post #28505980

     
    Aleppe

    Inhabitant of Nerana
    Profession: Elder Druid
    Level: 147

    Posts: 5847


    Originally posted by Linkirvana on 19.09.2010 13:02:56:


    > If you got any disrespect from my post regarding your
    > PvP skills then I didn't mean to - I was genuinely
    > asking some questions. (Since I sense a lot of
    > sarcasm ;<
    >
    > I would like to learn more about this what you
    > present as a big gap in the system.

    It's not about you, but about what I'm generally reading here and in discussion board: these players do not deserve any hints.

    And no, it's not a gap: I would say that it could be compared to the beloved old manual aiming.


    Aleppe
    ________________
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    19.09.2010 13:29:13
    Quote Post #28506113

     
    Linkirvana

    Inhabitant of Libera
    Profession: Paladin
    Level: 29

    Posts: 696


    Originally posted by Aleppe on 19.09.2010 13:29:13:
    >
    > It's not about you, but about what I'm generally
    > reading here and in discussion board: these players
    > do not deserve any hints.
    >
    > And no, it's not a gap: I would say that it could be
    > compared to the beloved old manual aiming.
    >
    >
    > Aleppe

    Alright fair enough, I understand why you don't want to share this.

    Although with all due respect - you're no super human, people will find out and it'll leak out and become a pretty popular way of killing people (I guess)

    Perhaps if I can be bothered I'll log on test later and see if I can "accidentally" run into 1 of your traps :P
    ________________
    I've got something to say!

    I killed your baby today!

    It doesn't matter much to me, as long as it's fuckin' dead!
    19.09.2010 13:32:21
    Quote Post #28506135

     
    Sekhmeht

    Inhabitant of Dolera
    Profession: Master Sorcerer
    Level: 169

    Soul of the Eagle (Fito)

    Posts: 31
    Angry 

    You not to introduce this to hardcore pvp servers, please !!!
    I think he would lose the grace of the game hardcore pvp servers
    19.09.2010 13:38:06
    Quote Post #28506170

     
    Linkirvana

    Inhabitant of Libera
    Profession: Paladin
    Level: 29

    Posts: 696


    Ah, I guess another new bot was written on Dolera: forumbot! It automaticly repeats what other people were saying, just in really crappy English!


    ________________
    I've got something to say!

    I killed your baby today!

    It doesn't matter much to me, as long as it's fuckin' dead!
    19.09.2010 13:40:50
    Quote Post #28506186

     
    Shirael Thamber

    Inhabitant of Dolera
    Profession: Elder Druid
    Level: 180

    Member of the Fifth Sin

    Posts: 56


    Unfortunally i think say "NO" is useless because you never ever listen to your customers, you already made a lot of bad changes to Hardcore pvp and now you are making another one just because you think your ideas will plus the population of this 2 servers, but as you saw in the pass, you FAIL whit this kind of ideas and the population remain in just on 200 + - ppl.

    Now i'm sure you will do the same: No listen to the players who live on Dolera/Inferna and make the changes just because you want to do, instead do the changes to make a better place to YOUR customers who always buy premmys for you.

    I'm Totally Disagree of this idea, its a really bad idea to put this on hardcore pvp.
    19.09.2010 20:48:21
    Edited by Shirael Thamber
    on 19.09.2010 20:49:21
    Quote Post #28508760

     
    Dopest Druid

    Inhabitant of Inferna
    Profession: Master Sorcerer
    Level: 99

    One of the Enlightenment (Erwin)

    Posts: 413


    This shouldnt be implented on hardcore pvp worlds. We already lost to much that gave us some fun
    19.09.2010 21:08:44
    Quote Post #28508926

     

    Página 24:

    Luv Gluv

    Inhabitant of Inferna
    Profession: Elite Knight
    Level: 85

    Posts: 7


    Just face it, there is no way to improve the numbers on "hardcore" pvp servers, shot of turning them into optional pvp servers there will always be 2 sides, a winning side and a losing side... the winning side will kill all new upstart players (unless they know where to level, and have the patience to slowly rise in levels) and the losing side will continue the cycle of start winning then eventually lose again (during the time in which the war takes place newbies can generally find that they won't get attacked by war guilds). these swapping changes only server as a means to over power those that have more players and higher levels... but wheres the skill in that? tibia has lost almost all skill and by downplaying the importance of trapping you're left with almost nothing but strategy, i don't give a hoot about strategy -.- i want skill.
    19.09.2010 21:20:40
    Quote Post #28509028

     
    Maga Dram

    Inhabitant of Julera
    Profession: Sorcerer
    Level: 163

    Posts: 65


    I cant be implemented its like horrible. Knights high levels with one player sioing will be unbeaten!

    If its impossible to dont implement that just add an higher delay..an limit of swapping its turning open pvp on optional lol.

    Thas horrible tibia is making me sad update by update.
    19.09.2010 21:47:27
    Edited by Maga Dram
    on 19.09.2010 21:47:44
    Quote Post #28509231

     
    Torgo Carius

    Inhabitant of Fortera
    Profession: Elite Knight
    Level: 191

    Posts: 290
    Thumbs down 

    i dont know if the trap swap position will work cause on wars many times u win only with masslogs and traps with good strategy.. but will be hard if u masslog like with 7 guys and try kill one lvl 200knight cause he can swap trap maybe if u put that he only can swap with full mana or if he use it he will got exauted.. dont know
    and what happen about the defenses? if the other team swap position with my knights.. they will kill all mages and all team will dead.
    :s


    sorry for my english i only try help
    19.09.2010 22:58:19
    Edited by Torgo Carius
    on 19.09.2010 22:59:19
    Quote Post #28509781

     
    Aknez Thamber

    Inhabitant of Dolera
    Profession: Royal Paladin
    Level: 98

    Member of the Fifth Sin

    Posts: 4
    Thumbs down 

    Do not ruin the current pvp

    just dont change position whit other players, like no-pvp worlds.

    a big NOOOOOO for swapping positions !!!!
    20.09.2010 00:19:34
    Quote Post #28510276

     
    Sigiy

    Inhabitant of Dolera
    Profession: Elder Druid
    Level: 207

    Vice Leader of the Fifth Sin

    Posts: 440


    PLEASE DONT!
    20.09.2010 00:27:01
    Quote Post #28510328

     
    Looprevil Drarreg

    Inhabitant of Harmonia
    Profession: Royal Paladin
    Level: 294

    Leader of the Almighty Force (Widzialem Kombajn)

    Posts: 201


    "NOOOO" to swapping! why you change the basic rules which have been set in tibia for many years?
    ________________
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    20.09.2010 00:49:02
    Edited by Looprevil Drarreg
    on 20.09.2010 00:50:49
    Quote Post #28510490

     
    Elektris

    Inhabitant of Harmonia
    Profession: Master Sorcerer
    Level: 184

    Immortal of the Almighty Force (Pierun)

    Posts: 16


    That idea will ruin currently pvp.
    Dont do this.
    20.09.2010 00:51:48
    Quote Post #28510502

     
    Handr

    Inhabitant of Magera
    Profession: Royal Paladin
    Level: 137

    Posts: 224


    Change the delay to at least 10 seconds!
    20.09.2010 03:33:46
    Quote Post #28511158

     
    Van the lethal warrior

    Inhabitant of Danera
    Profession: Master Sorcerer
    Level: 255

    Nightmare of the Insomniacs (Impeccable)

    Posts: 776


    It will ruin pvp for sure


    Just please listen fore once to your costumers and dont add this new feature that will ruin the gameplay we all fell in love with.



    yours,

    Danny
    ________________
    Feared and Loved at the same time, I will never change!
    20.09.2010 07:26:01
    Quote Post #28511889

     
    Vericrus

    Inhabitant of Premia
    Profession: Elder Druid
    Level: 104

    Validus of the Agens (In the army)

    Posts: 44


    I lol'd so hard when I read this, I mean really, are you serious? Why do the updates have to concentrate on ruining the pvp part of this game what most people love? Just leave the pvp system alone and everyone's happy, easy as that.

    So like other ppl said, for gods sake, do not implent this goddamn feature in this update, it's rubbish.
    20.09.2010 08:47:46
    Quote Post #28512138

     
    Xin San

    Inhabitant of Nerana
    Profession: Master Sorcerer
    Level: 139

    Chieftain of the Yin Yang

    Posts: 661


    Hello!

    Thanks to this feature I had a chance to escape from a trap and as for oppressed player, it works fine. So I'm after that.

    For the point about abusing it I would add:

    I would like to restrict it more and take away a chance of swapping from black and red skulled characters.

    For example character marked with red skull on decent level (around 200) kills someone, then he runs without dealing any damage to anybody. In this situation he cannot be trapped and killed. After some time he can repeat situation. Correct me, if I'm wrong.
    ________________
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    And that awakens the intent to murder.

    20.09.2010 09:25:39
    Quote Post #28512226

     
    Aleppe

    Inhabitant of Nerana
    Profession: Elder Druid
    Level: 147

    Posts: 5847


    These are the weak points in all reasonements against swaps:
    1. If you deal pvp damage to a char you can't swap with it
    2. Everybody can be trapped near stairs (and not only there)
    3. Potions = swap delay: one can't heal/refill mana while swapping
    4. It is simply not true that with swaps high level knights are immortal:

      Name: Tomurka
      Sex: female
      Profession: Elite Knight
      Level: 479
      Achievement Points: 186
      World: Testa

      Sep 20 2010, 00:11:27 CEST Crushed at Level 480 by Chochlik Knight, Derras Eriusia, Dragonreds, Elvori, Etylian, Glarand, Josh Wright, Looprevil Drarreg, Ne'roox, Pekiniasz and Zajc Almighty.
      Assisted by Francois Xelix.
      Sep 19 2010, 11:58:48 CEST Annihilated at Level 480 by Aatrizz, Avegisath, Bartoszek Palladyn, Biratiian, Bloody Yashre, Ernenish, Lord Gui mortal, Master Rhyne, Maua Mi, Mestre Fiyoda, Rosshizzle, Sanyk, Sellan Xemevoker, Undead Shoter, Wronx, Xuvalan, Yasoranar Zeth, Zen Keeper, Zongo'Lox and Zoogy.
      Assisted by Borbetso, Coxyboy, Czesc Kinder, Dark Apocalipse Vikingo, Dark Zizu, Eria Feginare, Everlot, Faceless Voidek, Ghus Hylina, Kolega Dantera Pall, Linus, Lord Drakunius, Lucra Emre, Mallumcia, Maxthir, Mikan Taro, Molip, Nikorakus Royal, Pallek Pegaz, Pan Voldemort, Panesote, Seth'Gru, Sir dark kafe, Taveru, Trien Turia, Trix'Doom, Ulia Gali, Xeesis, Yayari and Zig Nilson.
      Sep 18 2010, 19:53:27 CEST Annihilated at Level 481 by Britany nicol, Chiof, Duedoh, Ehrot, Galf Bubo, Kolega Dantera, Lost Mind Palladin, Master Przemek Ziom, Melkor Spellcaster, Mighty Irvin, Moopi, Royall Marcello, Skulterpa ba Gimli, Souria Aurathim, Suramun, Trottho, Undead On Druid, Valde Fortis, Volhi and Zhapata.
      Assisted by Anianusz, Astilinus Hunter, Carla Fehr, Gruby Masaj, Kiq Knight, Mind Trick, Pro Breaker, Rakasa, Sir Fire Matek, Thor Leander and Walite.
    So what?
    The problem is that your pvp skills sux, guys, not this feature.


    Aleppe
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    20.09.2010 09:54:24
    Edited by Aleppe
    on 20.09.2010 09:55:56
    Quote Post #28512313

     
    Linkirvana

    Inhabitant of Libera
    Profession: Paladin
    Level: 29

    Posts: 696


    Originally posted by Aleppe on 20.09.2010 09:54:24:
    > These are the weak points in all reasonements against
    > swaps:
    1. If you deal pvp damage to a char you
      > can't swap with it

      I think I may have noticed that, I took skull on a random guy to get chased around (just for the hell of it) I ended up trapped and I remember noticing I could switch places with everyone except the dude that I attacked in the first place, although I had only hit him once and after that stopped, more than a minute later I still couldn't switch spots with this particular guy.

      (I wasn't testing this specificly, so I may have missed other conditions, although everyone else around me did get the yellow square)

    2. Everybody can be trapped near
      > stairs (and not only there)

      I assume this includes teleporters n shit?

    3. Potions = swap delay:
      > one can't heal/refill mana while swapping

      I think I was doing pretty well healing/drinking spirit pots while swapping with people, although I did notice some snap backs (At the time I assumed it was because I had been paralyzed, moved a square and then tried to swapt)

      Guess I'll have to figure this one out a bit more

    4. It is
      > simply not true that with swaps high level knights
      > are immortal:

      I have noticed that people were unable to trap me properly, I only ended up dying because I simply got hit for a lot more than I could heal up, the times I was taking on an amount of people that couldn't kill me within like 10 seconds I had time to swap out and atleast get enough out of my screen for me to buy enough time to get away.


      Is there any specific time you were thinking of getting your testing on? I would love to check it out/help you out since I got a lot to learn about this whole swapping thing.
      ________________
      I've got something to say!

      I killed your baby today!

      It doesn't matter much to me, as long as it's fuckin' dead!
    20.09.2010 12:05:43
    Quote Post #28512787

     
    Ordfin Pall

    Inhabitant of Nerana
    Profession: Royal Paladin
    Level: 126

    Posts: 260


    I assume this includes teleporters ?

    1. Near stairs you can trap everybody both upstairs and downstairs, since stairs sqms are always considered free sqms.
    2. Ladders are different: you can trap updtairs (meaning that the victim won't be able to swap) but not downstairs (swaps enabled).
    3. Holes/shovel holes are always considered free sqms (even that ones like in desert dungeon or in Venore swamps below the hidden 1x beholder spawn with no way back).
    4. Pitfalls work always like holes.
    5. Rope spots allow swaps.
    6. Teleports allow swaps.
    7. PZ allow swaps when PZ locked.
    8. Special energy walls (like Goroma one) do not allow swaps.
    9. Stacks with on top an NPC or not pushable mob stacks do not allow swaps
    10. ....

    Guess I'll have to figure this one out a bit more

    You'll notice that using potions you'll have 1 turn delay to swap.


    I have noticed that people were unable to trap me properly

    And it always will be so until they won't understand that the new PVP version requires pvp skills and a bit o features knowledge, and not just to run up and down like fools.


    Is there any specific time you were thinking of getting your testing on? I would love to check it out/help you out since I got a lot to learn about this whole swapping thing.

    If nothing wrong will happen (nuclear wars, wife calls, Southern Europe Backbone crashes & co), I'll be on TS from 13 to 17-17-30 pm cest.


    Aleppe

    Ps: check Aleppe, Cathbad or this char. I don't know on which one I'll be on
    ________________
    § OLD ACCOUNTS § The power of the Ancients
    20.09.2010 12:38:09
    Edited by Ordfin Pall
    on 20.09.2010 12:41:14
    Quote Post #28512883

     
    Emzy Lime

    Inhabitant of Nova
    Profession: Elder Druid
    Level: 72

    Noble of the Divine Intervention (Gonffs Cheese Provider)

    Posts: 213


    Originally posted by Shatterhand on 19.09.2010 11:47:34:
    > Originally posted by Emzy Lime on 19.09.2010
    > 04:04:58
    :
    > > Just wanted to ask.. if you're trapped in a narrow
    > > alley but have 2 spots to move... can you escape?
    > > Even if you have no mwalls or anything to put in
    > the
    > > open space..
    > >
    > > B = trappers
    > > P = trapped
    > > O = open space
    > > = = wall
    > >
    > > ============
    > > BBBBPOBBBB
    > > ============
    >
    > yes you can, you need to summon a creature to fill
    > that space an then you can swap.

    But what if you can't summon?
    ________________
    =IF(Dump!C62="","",IF(ISERROR(LEFT(Dump!C62,FIND("(",Dump!C62,1)-1)),Dump!C62,LEFT(Dump!C62,FIND("(",Dump!C62,1)-1)))
    20.09.2010 15:03:26
    Quote Post #28513541

     
    Ere box eller

    Inhabitant of Inferna
    Profession: Druid
    Level: 45

    Posts: 14


    I'm so tired of this shit.. EVERY update Cip ruin this game more and moare..



    Seriously CIP, if u wanna fix so much with the PVP.. Fix everything you want, and after that you make us like 5-10 normal server.. Servers that is exactly the same as 8.1 or 8.2 without "warmode" 20 unjust for a death, the blessings etc..


    I have been inactive for almost a year now from you made the guild war thing.. and I miss the game, but tibia is about war.. and its impossible to play when you ruin the game more and more and more..


    Don't you see how many players you already lost? Really..


    I pray to god that you will get a brain soon, ALL of you


    /A mad guy
    20.09.2010 15:34:36
    Quote Post #28513746

     
    Perpetrious Dreamer

    Inhabitant of Xerena
    Profession: Master Sorcerer
    Level: 90

    Essencess of the Vendread

    Posts: 282


    My suggestion would be that if you are set on keeping this swap thing. Make it so ppl in warmode and skulled players cant swap. This feature should be something to help ppl that are getting killed unjustly.
    20.09.2010 17:50:01
    Quote Post #28515236

     
    Ryuiota Huneta

    Inhabitant of Pythera
    Profession: Sorcerer
    Level: 21

    Posts: 40


    This honestly helps the high level pas because now you can't kill them... lol.
    ________________
    ~Tiffany'Castalot
    20.09.2010 18:09:01
    Quote Post #28515513

     
    Voidless

    Inhabitant of Tenebra
    Profession: Royal Paladin
    Level: 157

    Paladin Master of the Birds

    Posts: 55


    Just don't do it. Just look at the feedback , by far most palyers don't aprove it.

    The pvp system is bad because of the skull and war systems. The war system just doesn't make sense in pvp worlds and the skull system is simple stupid, 10 people kill 4 or 5 non-skulled players, and all of the ten get red skulled... Maybe the new revenge system will changa a little bit that, but a very very little bit.

    BTW ,
    thanks for the end of stacks ! that was pretty nice : ))
    20.09.2010 18:53:46
    Quote Post #28516132

     
    Guerilla Sin

    Inhabitant of Rubera
    Profession: Druid
    Level: 132

    Posts: 423


    Originally posted by Aleppe on 20.09.2010 09:54:24:
    > These are the weak points in all reasonements against
    > swaps:
    1. If you deal pvp damage to a char you
      > can't swap with it
    2. Everybody can be trapped near
      > stairs (and not only there)
    3. Potions = swap delay:
      > one can't heal/refill mana while swapping
    4. It is
      > simply not true that with swaps high level knights
      > are immortal:
      >
      > Name: Tomurka
      > Sex: female
      > Profession: Elite Knight
      > Level: 479
      > Achievement Points: 186
      > World: Testa
      >
      > Sep 20 2010, 00:11:27 CEST Crushed at Level 480 by
      > Chochlik Knight, Derras Eriusia, Dragonreds, Elvori,
      > Etylian, Glarand, Josh Wright, Looprevil Drarreg,
      > Ne'roox, Pekiniasz and Zajc Almighty.
      > Assisted by Francois Xelix.
      > Sep 19 2010, 11:58:48 CEST Annihilated at Level 480
      > by Aatrizz, Avegisath, Bartoszek Palladyn, Biratiian,
      > Bloody Yashre, Ernenish, Lord Gui mortal, Master
      > Rhyne, Maua Mi, Mestre Fiyoda, Rosshizzle, Sanyk,
      > Sellan Xemevoker, Undead Shoter, Wronx, Xuvalan,
      > Yasoranar Zeth, Zen Keeper, Zongo'Lox and Zoogy.
      > Assisted by Borbetso, Coxyboy, Czesc Kinder, Dark
      > Apocalipse Vikingo, Dark Zizu, Eria Feginare,
      > Everlot, Faceless Voidek, Ghus Hylina, Kolega Dantera
      > Pall, Linus, Lord Drakunius, Lucra Emre, Mallumcia,
      > Maxthir, Mikan Taro, Molip, Nikorakus Royal, Pallek
      > Pegaz, Pan Voldemort, Panesote, Seth'Gru, Sir dark
      > kafe, Taveru, Trien Turia, Trix'Doom, Ulia Gali,
      > Xeesis, Yayari and Zig Nilson.
      > Sep 18 2010, 19:53:27 CEST Annihilated at Level 481
      > by Britany nicol, Chiof, Duedoh, Ehrot, Galf Bubo,
      > Kolega Dantera, Lost Mind Palladin, Master Przemek
      > Ziom, Melkor Spellcaster, Mighty Irvin, Moopi, Royall
      > Marcello, Skulterpa ba Gimli, Souria Aurathim,
      > Suramun, Trottho, Undead On Druid, Valde Fortis,
      > Volhi and Zhapata.
      > Assisted by Anianusz, Astilinus Hunter, Carla Fehr,
      > Gruby Masaj, Kiq Knight, Mind Trick, Pro Breaker,
      > Rakasa, Sir Fire Matek, Thor Leander and Walite.
      >
    So what?
    > The problem is that your pvp skills sux, guys, not
    > this feature.
    >
    >
    > Aleppe

    or that tomurka cant pvp =)

    also... "480 ek died therefore knights are not immortal", no this just means that the place where he was killed was so flooded with people that it was impossible for him to escape. it's all situational... i remember on the old test servers when EO used to play everybody would be using exiva on him hunting him down... i wouldn't be suprised if that was the case for tomurka.
    20.09.2010 18:54:19
    Edited by Guerilla Sin
    on 20.09.2010 18:55:02
    Quote Post #28516139

     

    Página 25:

    Linkirvana

    Inhabitant of Libera
    Profession: Paladin
    Level: 29

    Posts: 696


    Originally posted by Ordfin Pall on 20.09.2010 12:38:09:
    >
    >
    1. Near stairs you can trap everybody both
      > upstairs and downstairs, since stairs sqms are always
      > considered free sqms.
    2. Ladders are different: you
      > can trap updtairs (meaning that the victim won't be
      > able to swap) but not downstairs (swaps
      > enabled).
    3. Holes/shovel holes are always considered
      > free sqms (even that ones like in desert dungeon or
      > in Venore swamps below the hidden 1x beholder spawn
      > with no way back).
    4. Pitfalls work always like
      > holes.
    5. Rope spots allow swaps.
    6. Teleports allow
      > swaps.
    7. PZ allow swaps when PZ locked.
    8. Special
      > energy walls (like Goroma one) do not allow
      > swaps.
    9. Stacks with on top an NPC or not pushable
      > mob stacks do not allow swaps
    10. ....


    I see, that's pretty good to know.

    >
    > You'll notice that using potions you'll have 1 turn
    > delay to swap.

    Aight could be, never really noticed cause I wasn't paying that much attention, but I suppose thats what the snap backs were.

    > And it always will be so until they won't understand
    > that the new PVP version requires pvp skills and a
    > bit o features knowledge, and not just to run up and
    > down like fools.

    I see


    > If nothing wrong will happen (nuclear wars, wife
    > calls, Southern Europe Backbone crashes & co), I'll
    > be on TS from 13 to 17-17-30 pm cest.
    >
    >
    > Aleppe
    >
    > Ps: check Aleppe, Cathbad or this char. I don't know
    > on which one I'll be on

    Guess I showed interest a bit too late, had a mate show up at my house so wasn't able to log on today.
    ________________
    I've got something to say!

    I killed your baby today!

    It doesn't matter much to me, as long as it's fuckin' dead!
    20.09.2010 19:17:49
    Quote Post #28516428

     
    Junikee

    Inhabitant of Thoria
    Profession: Sorcerer
    Level: 65

    Posts: 25


    hello? nobody was crying about the traps lol
    all of us cried about the skull system not about if we get trappeds of not.
    this feature is useless ... high lvl knight are unbeateble (yes tomurka died oh oh oh no plax BY 40 PERSONS???????????????????????????????) ok need to say something more about if tomurka died cause he/she was noob? she/he just died because 40 person was sding him/her rofl.
    So now we won't be able to make war without war mode , so there's the end of the wars cause if a team don't want to join there won't be any death from any side lol they just will swap everywhere.............
    USELESS! for one time , agree with us , don't make whatever cipsoft wants just make what the ppl wants!

    thanks,sorry for my english i think it's understandable
    ________________
    /eMO
    20.09.2010 19:39:27
    Quote Post #28516692

     
    Torgo Carius

    Inhabitant of Fortera
    Profession: Elite Knight
    Level: 191

    Posts: 290
    Thumbs down 

    plz cip dont use the swap trap system.. now that u fix the stack system, defences will back and with swap system u cant use it cause the other team can swap position with us knights and they will kill mages :s and what about masslogs? if u masslog with like 7 guys u cant kill the knights and palys high lvls..
    20.09.2010 20:07:40
    Quote Post #28517104

     
    Ryft Immortal

    Inhabitant of Dolera
    Profession: Master Sorcerer
    Level: 46

    Ocras Walawatu of the Malibu-Nam (Solrakc Protects)

    Posts: 17
    Thumbs down BOO

    I vote against this proposal. It will ruin tibia. It takes skill to trap somebody.
    ________________
    You tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is 'never try'.
    http://forum.tibia.com/forum/?action=thread&threadid=3043375&pagenumber=1


    20.09.2010 20:19:27
    Edited by Ryft Immortal
    on 20.09.2010 20:21:24
    Quote Post #28517254

     
    Thaiigon

    Inhabitant of Askara
    Profession: Royal Paladin
    Level: 116

    Life of the Awesome

    Posts: 101


    what a bad idea... it will make everything worse!

    some people have "cried" because you ruined the PvP, that's true... but making things worse are not the solution

    Don't make the swap
    ________________
    /Thaigon
    Made in Brasil!
    20.09.2010 20:33:57
    Quote Post #28517440

     
    Linkirvana

    Inhabitant of Libera
    Profession: Paladin
    Level: 29

    Posts: 696


    Is everyone fucking stupid or what?

    "I vote against" Does this look like a poll? Is the concept of a discussion board really that hard to grasp?

    Hot diggidity damn.
    ________________
    I've got something to say!

    I killed your baby today!

    It doesn't matter much to me, as long as it's fuckin' dead!
    20.09.2010 20:57:34
    Quote Post #28517711

     
    Olboney

    Inhabitant of Mythera
    Profession: Elite Knight
    Level: 183

    Posts: 146
    To Aleppe

    So you think cause Tomurka died, everyone would be dead?
    Sometimes it's based in pvp.

    but...
    this time he were being ataked by 40 players sding him, so how could he scaped alive?

    If you are in a war sometimes masslogs are necesary to do some damage to the opponent guild,
    now seems to be that your point is to get 30 more players to massloging a 200+ EK

    Nowadays we only need 8-9 players max, before this patch get launched.
    ________________
    Do not try to do this at home
    20.09.2010 22:47:29
    Quote Post #28519176

     
    Master Zaster

    Inhabitant of Dolera
    Profession: Master Sorcerer
    Level: 168

    Spitfire of the Fires Of Heaven

    Posts: 203


    We dont need this....dont destroy our game....NO SWAPPP...
    20.09.2010 23:10:36
    Quote Post #28519527

     
    Ab Devil

    Inhabitant of Menera
    Profession: Elder Druid
    Level: 83

    Posts: 7584


    Originally posted by Maga Dram on 19.09.2010 21:47:27:
    > I cant be implemented its like horrible. Knights high
    > levels with one player sioing will be unbeaten!
    >
    >

    This statement has been proven false, many times over of the test server. High level knights, even with someone sio'ing them, were killed... Sometimes they even had 2 and 3 druids sio'ing them.
    ________________
    Sorry you can't handle the truth... but that's not my problem, it's yours.
    21.09.2010 00:29:49
    Quote Post #28520431

     
    Ab Devil

    Inhabitant of Menera
    Profession: Elder Druid
    Level: 83

    Posts: 7584


    Originally posted by Junikee on 20.09.2010 19:39:27:

    > this feature is useless ... high lvl knight are
    > unbeateble


    Many high level knights died on the test server, even with the feature. They were a little harder to kill instantly, but they still went down.
    ________________
    Sorry you can't handle the truth... but that's not my problem, it's yours.
    21.09.2010 00:31:34
    Quote Post #28520458

     
    Ab Devil

    Inhabitant of Menera
    Profession: Elder Druid
    Level: 83

    Posts: 7584


    Originally posted by Ryft Immortal on 20.09.2010 20:19:27:
    > I vote against this proposal. It will ruin tibia.
    > It takes skill to trap somebody.

    Trapping will still be possible. Long before the server was opened up to the public, the private test group (the discussion group), discovered a couple way the system can be manipulated to successfully trap players without triggering the swapping feature.

    If people would of actually spent time actually TESTING the feature after paccs and free accounts were allowed on (instead of just killing everyone in sight), others would of also discovered how to use the system to your offensive advantage.
    ________________
    Sorry you can't handle the truth... but that's not my problem, it's yours.
    21.09.2010 00:33:41
    Edited by Ab Devil
    on 21.09.2010 00:35:13
    Quote Post #28520483

     
    Olboney

    Inhabitant of Mythera
    Profession: Elite Knight
    Level: 183

    Posts: 146


    Originally posted by Ab Devil on 21.09.2010 00:33:41:
    > Originally posted by Ryft Immortal on 20.09.2010
    > 20:19:27
    :
    > > I vote against this proposal. It will ruin tibia.
    >
    > > It takes skill to trap somebody.
    >
    > Trapping will still be possible. Long before the
    > server was opened up to the public, the private test
    > group (the discussion group), discovered a couple way
    > the system can be manipulated to successfully trap
    > players without triggering the swapping feature.
    >
    > If people would of actually spent time actually
    > TESTING the feature after paccs and free accounts
    > were allowed on (instead of just killing everyone in
    > sight), others would of also discovered how to use
    > the system to your offensive advantage.


    I wont be surprise is you are one of those who pray to this cowardly swappping mode get implemented.

    Do not compare Test server with the real tibia, there were a Massive war in the TS everybody shooting you, and nobody cared of being killed cause it was for fun wont lose anything there.

    Its not the same, grow up.
    ________________
    Do not try to do this at home
    21.09.2010 01:46:42
    Edited by Olboney
    on 21.09.2010 01:54:04
    Quote Post #28520903

     
    Akoton Nitro

    Inhabitant of Tenebra
    Profession: Elite Knight
    Level: 207

    Warriors of the Invictus (Radiohead)

    Posts: 26
    Thumbs down 

    The worst thing created by cip is this.

    It's gonna make trap almost useless.
    ________________
    "For a minute there
    I lost myself"
    Radiohead - Karma Police
    21.09.2010 05:05:00
    Quote Post #28521849

     
    Kenpachi-zaraki

    Inhabitant of Dolera
    Profession: Elite Knight
    Level: 59

    Posts: 46


    In lieu of CIPs neglect to it's paying customers, failing to even respond to nearly the entire communities displeasure at their forthcoming changes, I have canceled my subscripton.

    I sincerely hope the rest of you follow in my footsteps. f the company will not even dignify it's customers with a post you should cease all future payments.
    21.09.2010 07:10:04
    Quote Post #28522222

     
    Linkirvana

    Inhabitant of Libera
    Profession: Paladin
    Level: 29

    Posts: 696


    Originally posted by Olboney on 21.09.2010 01:46:42:
    >
    >
    > I wont be surprise is you are one of those who pray
    > to this cowardly swappping mode get implemented.
    >
    > Do not compare Test server with the real tibia, there
    > were a Massive war in the TS everybody shooting you,
    > and nobody cared of being killed cause it was for fun
    > wont lose anything there.
    >
    > Its not the same, grow up.

    Yeah because there was nobody on test server that actually seriously took a look at real tibia scenarios to check shit out?

    ...

    Are you fucking kidding me? Pointing your fucking finger at people like you know shit, when it is abundantly clear you don't.

    This thread must've been the funniest I've read in awhile.
    ________________
    I've got something to say!

    I killed your baby today!

    It doesn't matter much to me, as long as it's fuckin' dead!
    21.09.2010 09:49:05
    Quote Post #28522745

     
    Xin San

    Inhabitant of Nerana
    Profession: Master Sorcerer
    Level: 139

    Chieftain of the Yin Yang

    Posts: 661


    Like someone wrote, this feature should protect players not involved in to wars. Skulled characters (red/black/yellow) should not have a chance to swap, same as players participating in a Guild War.
    ________________
    Lust awakens the desire to possess.
    And that awakens the intent to murder.

    21.09.2010 11:33:34
    Quote Post #28523015

     
    Crazefang

    Inhabitant of Inferna
    Profession: Master Sorcerer
    Level: 90

    Leader of the Commilites

    Posts: 734


    Originally posted by Linkirvana on 21.09.2010 09:49:05:
    > Originally posted by Olboney on 21.09.2010
    > 01:46:42
    :
    > >
    > >
    > > I wont be surprise is you are one of those who
    > pray
    > > to this cowardly swappping mode get implemented.
    > >
    > > Do not compare Test server with the real tibia,
    > there
    > > were a Massive war in the TS everybody shooting
    > you,
    > > and nobody cared of being killed cause it was for
    > fun
    > > wont lose anything there.
    > >
    > > Its not the same, grow up.
    >
    > Yeah because there was nobody on test server that
    > actually seriously took a look at real tibia
    > scenarios to check shit out?
    >
    > ...
    >
    > Are you fucking kidding me? Pointing your fucking
    > finger at people like you know shit, when it is
    > abundantly clear you don't.
    >
    > This thread must've been the funniest I've read in
    > awhile.

    You need anger management.
    21.09.2010 13:12:19
    Quote Post #28523376

     
    Liyn

    Inhabitant of Amera
    Profession: Elder Druid
    Level: 101

    Royal family of the Academy of Might and Magic (Dreamwalker)

    Posts: 874


    Indeed.

    Linkirvana, this is an open discussion for everyone and everyone has a right to have his own opinion. Please try to understand it before you are offensive like that again.


    @Topic,

    Is it possible to at least rethink the swapping feature on Hardcore PvP servers? It's meant to avoid noob chars interfering but they are really not a problem on Dolera and Inferna.
    Not that I approve of this feature on Open PvP, but here there are at least some good points about it.

    And let me state/ remind it again: Kaz trap + the rs trick is still possible, and should not.

    Liyn
    ________________
    18:27 Liyn [50]: ive just got beggar outfit
    18:27 Liyn [50]: and i will marry Simon the Beggar!
    18:28 Reeve [74]: level?
    21.09.2010 13:43:06
    Edited by Liyn
    on 21.09.2010 13:51:25
    Quote Post #28523541

     
    Delline

    Inhabitant of Arcania
    Profession: Sorcerer
    Level: 128

    Posts: 13


    This is the worst idea ever. Can't believe that CIP is so blind to see that it will destroy this game even more. Almost all the the posts are against this idea, so i hope you will not implement this.

    For example i was talking with my friends that maybe we should buy pacc and start playing in the winter, but when they found out about this update, it was like: "Lol tibia is even worse, rather play ot servers",

    You will just remove one of the few left pvp aspects which needs some skill to trap others...Maybe then let everyone bot and make this game automatic, or eventually you'll create something like "hold target" "anti paralyze", so you wouldn't need any skill to play -.-

    So badly disappointed...
    21.09.2010 14:36:41
    Edited by Delline
    on 21.09.2010 14:38:00
    Quote Post #28523856

     
    Latuz

    Inhabitant of Titania
    Profession: Master Sorcerer
    Level: 239

    Leader of the Retaliation

    Posts: 307


    What about if players are in war mode ? does it change anything?
    I think people that are in war mode should NOT be able to swap positions with other people in war mode,with non war mode characters its fine.



    They wont change it anyway, I dont like it, but its better to try to help them to repair it or make it better.
    21.09.2010 16:40:07
    Edited by Latuz
    on 21.09.2010 16:41:11
    Quote Post #28525058

     

    Página 26:

    Kalafson

    Inhabitant of Saphira
    Profession: Master Sorcerer
    Level: 202

    Quad Damage of the Red Mist

    Posts: 291


    Worst idea ever.

    You could make every serv non pvp, would give same result imo. Coz if the guild from my server won't accept or cancel war mode (next worst idea to make it able to cancel war mode )it will be like on non pvp, hats off!
    ________________
    Hate is easy
    Love takes Courage.
    21.09.2010 19:55:58
    Quote Post #28527703

     
    Linkirvana

    Inhabitant of Libera
    Profession: Paladin
    Level: 29

    Posts: 696


    Originally posted by Liyn on 21.09.2010 13:43:06:
    > Indeed.
    >
    > Linkirvana, this is an open discussion for everyone
    > and everyone has a right to have his own opinion.
    > Please try to understand it before you are offensive
    > like that again.
    >

    I'm sorry what? I was being offensive? I don't really give a fuck, you see the idea of a discussion board is to bring forth arguments and debate these.

    Instead someone comes in here, and just claims that test server is only used for random pking.

    I'm sorry but that does annoy me, and I'll make that as clear as I legally can on the forums. Instead of wasting your time on going all "ZOMG HE SAID FUCK HE NEEDS ANGER MANAGEMENT" you should perhaps consider posting something constructive, like I have (Even though perhaps not the way you would've liked me to)
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    21.09.2010 23:00:25
    Quote Post #28530073

     
    Lordek Rayne

    Inhabitant of Dolera
    Profession: Elder Druid
    Level: 135

    Member of the Fifth Sin

    Posts: 76


    this is a bad idea imo
    you see, all it does is further oppress the underdogs of war.
    some of whom defense is there only option.

    This swapping ,once again caters to the noobs and does nothing for actual pvp.

    Also we know this is gonna make a knight with brains unkillable.
    i understand you at cip feel a big change is necessary to pvp but this is not the way.

    it will certainly ruin the pvp aspect of tibia.

    ESPECIALLY on hardcore pvp worlds. you will ruin the true essence that both worlds have left.

    I for one will certainly quit if this is done because i play for the pvp and this idea truely dissapoints me.

    thank you, rayne
    21.09.2010 23:23:21
    Quote Post #28530304

     
    Kingami

    Inhabitant of Dolera
    Profession: Master Sorcerer
    Level: 127

    Member of the Fifth Sin

    Posts: 70


    I quited Vinera when you implemented the new skull system , it was bad really bad but still I had an option to keep playing because the only thing I play for, is PvP . So I started up in dolera and you come with these now, COME ON
    THAT WILL FOR SURE RUIN HARDCORE PVP SERVERS AND WHERE TRAPPING IS NOT AN ISSUE LIKE ON NON PVP OR OPEN PVP SERVERS.
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    22.09.2010 00:25:21
    Quote Post #28530865

     
    Ab Devil

    Inhabitant of Menera
    Profession: Elder Druid
    Level: 83

    Posts: 7584


    Originally posted by Lordek Rayne on 21.09.2010 23:23:21:
    >
    > Also we know this is gonna make a knight with brains
    > unkillable.


    This statement was proven false time and again in the test server, as knights of all levels were killed.
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    22.09.2010 00:39:39
    Quote Post #28530981

     
    Master Bom Bombun

    Inhabitant of Dolera
    Profession: Master Sorcerer
    Level: 133

    Member of the Fifth Sin

    Posts: 7


    Originally posted by Ab Devil on 22.09.2010 00:39:39:
    > Originally posted by Lordek Rayne on 21.09.2010
    > 23:23:21
    :
    > >
    > > Also we know this is gonna make a knight with
    > brains
    > > unkillable.
    >
    >
    > This statement was proven false time and again in the
    > test server, as knights of all levels were killed.


    He said Knight WITH brains not boted up knights

    On Topic: I really try to see a point on implementing this on Hardcore pvp servers, but I cant find any good reason for it, the dinamics of pvp here are way different than those of open pvp, we dont have the noobs trapping problem at all here, if someone tries it he just ends up dead, thats a problem of the open pvp servers not here, but hey when was the las time CIP has heard the Hardcore pvp population?, they said we want to make this servers more populated so we will implement blessings and aol and remove the exp from pvp,low level characters lost any oportunity to actually make a stand here, both servers are at an all time low on population since this "Necesary changues" but hey CIP is always right no?
    22.09.2010 01:05:18
    Quote Post #28531212

     
    Liyn

    Inhabitant of Amera
    Profession: Elder Druid
    Level: 101

    Royal family of the Academy of Might and Magic (Dreamwalker)

    Posts: 874


    @ Linkirvana

    Oh well, that's just your manners then.


    > Instead someone comes in here, and just claims that
    > test server is only used for random pking.

    Mm, I was needing several people to test something out, I was asking on Testera - no one to help me. On Testa - someone could and then we didn't find anyone else who would know something we were going to test. I'm glad if you had another feeling, though.

    > you should perhaps consider
    > posting something constructive

    Thank you for your advice, I've already posted more than 30 constructive posts on this topic. The problem is that besides you, Aleppe (obviously), Alecto Misc and maybe several others "I strongly disagree" guys no one even bothers to read this "constructive feedback" and answer. The real feedback was taken from the Focus Group, now it seems this board is more like let-give-them-a-place-to-complain-so-it-seems-we-care.


    And well, before they close the board @ you, Aleppe, Alecto and others that answer, even though we disagree with each other in 80% of cases, I'd like you to know that I do appreciate your input and replies, even if they are bit offensive or mean, I always like to discuss (unless Aleppe threats to hunt me ._.) >:]


    Liyn
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    22.09.2010 01:06:55
    Quote Post #28531227

     
    Sharp Dressed Man

    Inhabitant of Dolera
    Profession: Elder Druid
    Level: 126

    Funky of the Dancy Time (Beast Mode)

    Posts: 871


    Originally posted by Liyn on 22.09.2010 01:06:55:

    > The real feedback was taken from the Focus Group, now
    > it seems this board is more like
    > let-give-them-a-place-to-complain-so-it-seems-we-care.

    Bingo
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    22.09.2010 01:44:17
    Quote Post #28531447

     
    Phoenix of the Darkness

    Inhabitant of Luminera
    Profession: Elite Knight
    Level: 148

    Judge of the Manhunt (Merciless)

    Posts: 1285


    Originally posted by Sharp Dressed Man on 22.09.2010 01:44:17:
    > Originally posted by Liyn on 22.09.2010
    > 01:06:55
    :
    >
    > > The real feedback was taken from the Focus Group,
    > now
    > > it seems this board is more like
    > >
    > let-give-them-a-place-to-complain-so-it-seems-we-care
    > .
    >
    > Bingo

    rofl

    I lol'd.
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    22.09.2010 02:33:44
    Quote Post #28531634

     
    Cuttah

    Inhabitant of Inferna
    Profession: Elite Knight
    Level: 160

    One of the Enlightenment (Ian)

    Posts: 286


    Well, I guess you don't care about what yours custormers thinks and wants. Whats the point implementing something that NO ONE at hardcore pvp agree? Its just like you want to get customers away, honestly. I can't keep payin for things just like this, coz you're not listening what we're saying.

    I must say that you'll have less one old player, guess its not me only who will be doing that.

    Hope I made myself clear, sorry for bad english.
    22.09.2010 02:37:07
    Quote Post #28531652

     
    Abel Zaraka

    Inhabitant of Premia
    Profession: Sorcerer
    Level: 24

    Posts: 10


    Originally posted by Ab Devil on 22.09.2010 00:39:39:
    > Originally posted by Lordek Rayne on 21.09.2010
    > 23:23:21
    :
    > >
    > > Also we know this is gonna make a knight with
    > brains
    > > unkillable.
    >
    >
    > This statement was proven false time and again in the
    > test server, as knights of all levels were killed.

    so basically levels equate to intelligence to you


    cool beans
    22.09.2010 03:00:08
    Quote Post #28531776

     
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