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Feature: Revenge Skull

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Craban
Product Manager

Inhabitant of Arcania
Profession: None
Level: 4

Posts: 4103


What is it?

Very simple: If you get killed unjustified by player A, this player A will have an orange skull just visible for you for a maximum of 7 days. This means that you can attack and kill him justified within 7 days after your death. As soon as you kill him once, he will also lose that skull. If he killed you 3 times, you can also kill him 3 times back before he loses the skull, unless you take too long.

If you attack an orange skull, you will receive a PZ block and the orange skull can defend because you then get a yellow skull for him.

What should be tested?

- Does it work correctly?
- Are there ways to abuse this?
- Does it break anything else in the game?
________________
I'm not a man of too many faces,
The mask I wear is one.

(Sting)
A very good approach on how to play Tibia WITH others rather than AGAINST!
27.08.2010 13:08:37
Quote Post #28317495

 
Nymet

Inhabitant of Shanera
Profession: Paladin
Level: 56

Badger of Legend of the Republic of the Badgers (Master Platypus)

Posts: 767


Works as intended I was slained trying to bash Benja but he killed me once his normal skull worn off the orange one appeared in its placed, after hitting him again with his orange skull he reported he saw a yellow skull on me and I got PZ locked.

I was also killed by myst'sharion but he also died just promptly and didnt log back in so I cant report on if he has it or not, but overall seems to be working as intended.

ill post later on my thoughts if its balanced enough with more testing at hand.

EDIT
-----
Myst'Sharion does have an orange skull
________________
As the old saying goes... "Fifty NO's and one YES means YES!"
27.08.2010 16:36:53
Edited by Nymet
on 27.08.2010 17:04:07
Quote Post #28318925

 
Alecto Misc

Inhabitant of Danubia
Profession: Knight
Level: 17

Posts: 2198


Enyx Deathweaver is showing a revenge skull to me.

I know it is unrealistic for a level 17 to be able to kill a level 186, but lets say that the levels are closer where I would want to attempt it.

The pz lock for taking revenge is going to make it where a person will not even try unless they are 100% sure they can do it. I think it should be more like a party/duel where neither has pz lock. At least then I can try to get revenge and if things go bad will have an "out".
27.08.2010 18:55:19
Quote Post #28320050

 
Borr Henceforth
Senator

Inhabitant of Rubera
Profession: Knight
Level: 49

Ruberan and member of the Henceforth Family (Librarian)

Posts: 2853


I don't know the whole discussion that lead to this idea, so I keep it short: Wouldn't it not be better to count a certain amount of online time, instead of the normal week?
27.08.2010 22:54:17
Quote Post #28322004

 
Ranelle
Senator

Inhabitant of Luminera
Profession: Royal Paladin
Level: 63

Bard of the Order of the Mystic Mace

Posts: 1307


Originally posted by Borr Henceforth on 27.08.2010 22:54:17:
> I don't know the whole discussion that lead to this
> idea, so I keep it short: Wouldn't it not be better
> to count a certain amount of online time, instead of
> the normal week?

I can't see that it would make too much of a difference, and also has the potential to make it a bit unfair. With the way it is now, you could simply wait offline or play other characters for a week. With your proposed method, you'd just depot sit for a while until the skull went away. Either way, the character is "out of commission" for a while, but your method has the potential to be drasticly shorter. Also, somebody who only had a few hours a few times a week to play would be heavily penalized compared to someone who played for several hours every day.

Ranelle
28.08.2010 07:11:18
Quote Post #28324589

 
Sir Elleandor

Inhabitant of Calmera
Profession: Master Sorcerer
Level: 49

Ascending of the Avater Force

Posts: 785


Ok, Sir Elleandor just lost some blood testing things. I just got a premium account in normal servers but in the test server I am just a not promoted free account.


Start:
Death 0
XP lvl 45 - 1,349,436.
Ml was just at Ml 63.
Araluxie (118) killed Sir Elleandor (45). First he tried inviting me to a party. I didn't accept. He then attacked me and killed me. He got an unjustified as he should. Meanie.

I was in the middle of typing a message "NO STOP!" and hit enter so I missed the message on my screen and spawned at temple.

I don't know how many blessings if any I had. I don't lose my backpack.

SO, now:
Death 1
XP lvl 44 - 1,321,641 (2.06% less than before)
Ml about 75% into ml 62.

I come out of temple and attack Araluxie who has a white skull. I use my fists, then a rune.
I don't get a yellow skull to him.
He kills me again and gets another unjustified.

I don't lose my backpack.

SO, now:
Death 2
XP lvl 44 - 1,289,969 (2.396% less than before)
Ml about 50% into 62

Araluxie still has a white skull.
I attack him and still I don't get a yellow skull.
I then walk right into the dp. Even with the crosshairs.
I use exevo flam hur on him and once again I walk into the dp. I can still see the "You deal 60 damage to Araluxie." message on my screen and I have the crosshairs.

So I bring my druid, Elleani Blazeheart, who is level 30, to kill me. I had a white skull from killing a low level unjustly. She attacks me and gets yellow skull. While she is attacking me:
Blue Magical Jess [115]: exura gran mas res
a few times... and helps to pk me.

I died and had a 70% penalty reduction! even though both the killer, Elleani Blazeheart, and myself were being healed, and even though Elleani was lower level. (So Fair Fight Rules seem to have worked just fine.)

I did not lose my backpack.

Death 3
XP lvl 44 - 1,264,796 (1.95% lower than before)
Ml 25% into Ml 62.

I'm glad the high level helped kill me as it reduced my losses...

So now Araluxie has an orange skull because enough time passed for the white skull to leave.
Now when I attack him, I get pz lock. All now that he has an orange skull seems to be working as intended.
I attack him and get a yellow skull.

Conclusion
Re-examine what happens between time of death and orange skull. I didn't trigger a yellow skull or pz lock when attacking for revenge on the white skull.

Side note, I died three times as a free account yet I only lost one level and no items. The death still sucks, but that's a lot of dying for relatively little loss compared to before.

Sincerely,

Sir Elleandor
________________
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- A. P. Gouthey
28.08.2010 07:17:34
Quote Post #28324613

 
Blue Magical Jess

Inhabitant of Astera
Profession: Elder Druid
Level: 115

Boozer of the Drunks of Doom

Posts: 1741


Too many skull colours, how about using the crossed swords graphic from the log out block and slapping a red "R" ontop of them?
28.08.2010 11:22:37
Quote Post #28325501

 
Craban
Product Manager

Inhabitant of Arcania
Profession: None
Level: 4

Posts: 4103


  • Originally posted by Sir Elleandor on 28.08.2010 07:17:34: About the skull issue when directly reloggin and attacking again

    Actually, this is the case in game since we introduced the black skull. The skull dependency is stored now even beyond a character death, so yes, also if someone has a yellow skull for you and you die, you come back he may still have that yellow skull and you still have the right to defend yourself without PZ block. This was necessary to avoid another thing that happened with black skulls that could somehow manage to still produce an unjustified kill without this feature. Too complicated to explain this now, but anyways, do you think this is really a problem? After all, it has been there for over a year now.

    Originally posted by Blue Magical Jess on 28.08.2010 11:22:37:
    > Too many skull colours, how about using the crossed
    > swords graphic from the log out block and slapping a
    > red "R" ontop of them?

    Hehe, well, whatever sign we use, it still will be one more sign to remember. Using a skull has the advantage with generally, any skull means you can attack which is the case here too, so I believe that using another skull is actually the better and easier choice than using a completely new sign.
    ________________
    I'm not a man of too many faces,
    The mask I wear is one.

    (Sting)
    A very good approach on how to play Tibia WITH others rather than AGAINST!
  • 28.08.2010 13:44:11
    Quote Post #28326187

     
    Alecto Misc

    Inhabitant of Danubia
    Profession: Knight
    Level: 17

    Posts: 2198


    Craban,

    Concerning the WS that gets a second unjust when you come out of the temple and attack them and they wind up killing you again.

    I certainly was not aware of that, and I think many people do not know it.

    The "difference" is that with the FFR & pvp blessing, people are going to be more inclined to seek revenge now, so this is likely to show up more and more.

    Personally, I would have to label this as a "skull bashers delight". This is great for the person that wants to get someone to take rs, or if they are really wanting to get that person, get them to take black skull.

    i.e. Let's say you are the pk'r, and you pk me on a small island where there is not anywhere to run and hide at. I immediately come back while you still have ws and pz block and start attacking. You have no choice but to fight back or die.

    You fight back and kill me, you now have 2nd unjust.

    Repeat these steps.

    You now have 3rd, and a new shiny red skull.

    And since you are trapped on that small island, and I am now really mad at you, I will do this a few more times just so you get black skull. Now I know your char is out of commission for 45 days, and myself and a few friends will take advantage of the black skull you now have to send you to the temple without any of your eq.

    Right now I am really hating it that I am making this argument. Personally, I would love to see this scenario happen to a few people. But the part of me that is being subjective and fair has to point this out as a way this can (and probably will be) abused.
    28.08.2010 16:43:20
    Quote Post #28327304

     
    Aleppe

    Inhabitant of Nerana
    Profession: Elder Druid
    Level: 147

    Posts: 5847


    I don't like this feature, and this is not a secret.

    Once again:

    if A killed B in Tibia means most likely that either A was a HL and B a mid-low level or that A was a team.

    In the 1st case B won't be able to do anything, or worst, he will risk even to get killed again by A (this time justified) if A will wait a yellow skulled B near the temple (hey guys, you've just spoiled my preferred way to get rid of pvp-master wannabe griefers ) or B to shoot a field rune during the next 7 days, and in the second case the yellow skull would be worthless, given that B would wait each A member to be alone and far away from any pz before to proceed, and this just if B lv > A member lv.

    It was said that, in the 1st case (A= HL), several "B" chars could be able to team up to hunt "A".

    Here is my answer: Several? A character can kill max 2 players unjustified within 24 hours or 4 within a week, each unjust frag can lead to 20 unjusts and red skulls stay mostly in PZ. Where are those several "B"?

    Resuming: I'd prefer to see unjust frags counted just for war system purposes (the right to call to war your enemy).


    Aleppe
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    28.08.2010 18:11:19
    Edited by Aleppe
    on 28.08.2010 18:14:05
    Quote Post #28327990

     
    Sir Elleandor

    Inhabitant of Calmera
    Profession: Master Sorcerer
    Level: 49

    Ascending of the Avater Force

    Posts: 785


    It just seemed odd to me that I could be attacking him after I died and immediately step into a protection zone. If he gets a second unjust I think that's not as bothersome to me.

    Though I guess right now if you are being attacked by someone, you can attack back and still get into a pz. It gives the defender an advantage. Which isn't a bad thing.

    But it seems to not follow the same philosophy of the orange skull. Because the orange skull gets me a protection zone lock, so I don't see why I should be able to attack the guy and get into a pz while he has a white skull. I just shot a SD, I shouldn't be allowed to get into a boat, or a pyramid, or a dp to heal up.

    Though if you have a white skull, not sure why you'd be hanging out near a boat or a dp, so really I can see this being bad in Ank. If I was pkd in Ank, I can chase the guy easily because he has pz lock, and I can step down from the pyramid and fire something, then go back up and be in pz, then step back down. I can go faster than him because I can cut across pyramids because I don't have pz lock, whereas he needs to run through the streets.

    I'm no true pvper, so if it hasn't been an issue this last year then maybe it isn't necessary to change the current functionality.

    Elleandor

    Originally posted by Craban on 28.08.2010 13:44:11:
    >
  • Originally posted by Sir Elleandor on
    > 28.08.2010 07:17:34
    : About the skull issue when
    > directly reloggin and attacking again
    >
    > Actually, this is the case in game since we
    > introduced the black skull. The skull dependency is
    > stored now even beyond a character death, so yes,
    > also if someone has a yellow skull for you and you
    > die, you come back he may still have that yellow
    > skull and you still have the right to defend yourself
    > without PZ block. This was necessary to avoid another
    > thing that happened with black skulls that could
    > somehow manage to still produce an unjustified kill
    > without this feature. Too complicated to explain this
    > now, but anyways, do you think this is really a
    > problem? After all, it has been there for over a year
    > now.
    >
    > Originally posted by Blue Magical Jess on
    > 28.08.2010 11:22:37
    :
    > > Too many skull colours, how about using the
    > crossed
    > > swords graphic from the log out block and slapping
    > a
    > > red "R" ontop of them?
    >
    > Hehe, well, whatever sign we use, it still will be
    > one more sign to remember. Using a skull has the
    > advantage with generally, any skull means you can
    > attack which is the case here too, so I believe that
    > using another skull is actually the better and easier
    > choice than using a completely new sign.
    ________________
    He helps others most, who shows them how to help themselves.
    - A. P. Gouthey
  • 28.08.2010 23:22:46
    Edited by Sir Elleandor
    on 28.08.2010 23:45:16
    Quote Post #28330513

     
    Ab Devil

    Inhabitant of Menera
    Profession: Elder Druid
    Level: 83

    Posts: 7584


    Revenge skulls have appeared for me when I've died in "unjustifed" battles (well on my killer that is).
    ________________
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    29.08.2010 03:05:12
    Quote Post #28331761

     
    Edoc
    Senator

    Inhabitant of Askara
    Profession: Master Sorcerer
    Level: 121

    Posts: 2386


    I like the way it works.

    ~Edoc.
    ________________
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    to reach lvl 100 on Askara lands.
    29.08.2010 04:54:16
    Quote Post #28332227

     
    Aestyn

    Inhabitant of Magera
    Profession: Elder Druid
    Level: 33

    Parch of the Rising Dragons Magera (Devlish Ways)

    Posts: 3736


    Originally posted by Edoc on 29.08.2010 04:54:16:
    > I like the way it works.
    >
    > ~Edoc.

    Agreed.
    ________________
    12:43 Penny: You ARE Aestyn, aren't you? <giggles> That's called vanity search... looking what you find under your own name. Teehee! That joke only works once though.
    29.08.2010 06:19:33
    Quote Post #28332488

     
    Blue Magical Jess

    Inhabitant of Astera
    Profession: Elder Druid
    Level: 115

    Boozer of the Drunks of Doom

    Posts: 1741


    Actually, this is the case in game since we introduced the black skull. The skull dependency is stored now even beyond a character death, so yes, also if someone has a yellow skull for you and you die, you come back he may still have that yellow skull and you still have the right to defend yourself without PZ block. This was necessary to avoid another thing that happened with black skulls that could somehow manage to still produce an unjustified kill without this feature. Too complicated to explain this now, but anyways, do you think this is really a problem? After all, it has been there for over a year now.

    Sure it's been there for over a year, but to get it you have to get several unjusts and taking black skull makes that character practically unusable for 45 days so once you lose your PZ block or get killed there's no point in going back on it. Now everytime you kill someone unjustified you'll get the same nasty side effect.

    It does mean taking revenge sooner than later is better because they'll take another unjust if they kill you, but is it perhaps too harsh? Especially if you kill someone in a place where you can't escape from, as alecto pointed out in his small island example.
    30.08.2010 09:06:32
    Quote Post #28341289

     
    Aleppe

    Inhabitant of Nerana
    Profession: Elder Druid
    Level: 147

    Posts: 5847


    Now everytime you kill someone unjustified you'll get the same nasty side effect.

    With a difference: if you kill an orange skulled character he will lose it right after his death but if you keep killing a red skulled character he will just suffer more and more death penalties.

    That's why, in Focus Group discussion, I've talked about a red-black skull bonus for each suffered death to be discounted from the original 30/45 days.


    Aleppe
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    30.08.2010 12:33:52
    Quote Post #28342061

     
    Nymet

    Inhabitant of Shanera
    Profession: Paladin
    Level: 56

    Badger of Legend of the Republic of the Badgers (Master Platypus)

    Posts: 767


    Nobody would be willing to go forth and play with a red/black skull because of the free reign anyone has to bash you, its pointless to offer reduction in skulled time for each death they recieve should they go forth and try to play. However I may be wrong with the addition of FFR which may sway people to attempt to play with a red/black skull, and if I am wrong then your idea sounds very feasible, but till then its pointless.
    ________________
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    30.08.2010 14:27:12
    Quote Post #28342642

     
    Craban
    Product Manager

    Inhabitant of Arcania
    Profession: None
    Level: 4

    Posts: 4103


    My current impression here is that some like it and some think it doesn't really help, but it seems that there is nothing that this would really break or make worse, so it seems, there is no change needed here for a start. Maybe we'll see some more about it in the public test phase or later in game when it has been there a while, but it looks like all we would need to do here is make it more attractive.

    I don't see any risk so far in letting this go in.
    ________________
    I'm not a man of too many faces,
    The mask I wear is one.

    (Sting)
    A very good approach on how to play Tibia WITH others rather than AGAINST!
    30.08.2010 17:00:57
    Quote Post #28343723

     
    Alecto Misc

    Inhabitant of Danubia
    Profession: Knight
    Level: 17

    Posts: 2198


    I have been thinking more about your answer on the skulls.

    One thought that came to mind. If you can get back to attack the person that just killed you within 15 minutes you do not get pz lock. But if you can't find them that fast, then to try to take revenge you do get pz lock.

    If you are quick enough to catch them, not only do you get to go in pz, but if they kill you again they get another unjust.

    So to me, after that 15min when they lose their pz lock, they will have the advantage when you come for revenge. They will be allowed to go in pz. They have already shown they can kill you, that is how they got the revenge skull in the first place. And now, if they kill you again it is justified.

    Because of this, IMHO making an attack on a revenge skull should not get you pz lock.
    30.08.2010 17:56:48
    Quote Post #28344207

     
    Cathbad

    Inhabitant of Nerana
    Profession: Master Sorcerer
    Level: 103

    Posts: 132


    Because of this, IMHO making an attack on a revenge skull should not get you pz lock

    PZ-hopping? Naaaaa
    ________________
    Ancients may be gone, but their magic is not.
    Time ago I dreamed magic for the moon, and she still dances for me now as she did then. Cathbad is my name, and I'm still dreaming.
    30.08.2010 18:00:06
    Quote Post #28344231

     

    Página 2:

    Alecto Misc

    Inhabitant of Danubia
    Profession: Knight
    Level: 17

    Posts: 2198


    after doing a little testing yesterday, I am even more convinced that the revenge skull needs to be where it does not give you pz lock.

    If you can come back in the first 15 minutes, you can still swap, and block the killer who can't swap. If you can come back in the 15 minutes, you can go into pz if needed.

    But afterwards, when the killer is showing an orange skull, if you attack, not only are you prevented from going into pz, the killer can now use your attack to trap you because of the block on swapping.

    The more of this I see, the more advantage I am seeing for the person wearing the orange skull if the orange skull is near or higher level than the person seeking revenge.

    It is not like I am asking for the orange skull person to still be treated like a white skull, I am just saying we should remove one huge disadvantage that the vengeance seeker is facing.
    31.08.2010 15:52:26
    Quote Post #28352673

     
    Alexena

    Inhabitant of Lunara
    Profession: Royal Paladin
    Level: 188

    Moon Shadow of the Azure Twilight

    Posts: 962


    If the pk has killed me once he can do it again why would i even want to take revenge knowing i'll be the one penalized for it.

    Revenge killing naaaaaaaaah i think not. Big fail for me with the pz added.
    31.08.2010 22:02:22
    Quote Post #28355608

     
    Alecto Misc

    Inhabitant of Danubia
    Profession: Knight
    Level: 17

    Posts: 2198


    Originally posted by Alexena on 31.08.2010 22:02:22:
    > If the pk has killed me once he can do it again why
    > would i even want to take revenge knowing i'll be the
    > one penalized for it.
    >
    > Revenge killing naaaaaaaaah i think not. Big fail for
    > me with the pz added.

    hmmm, so you are saying if a team of say 6 level 50 mages killed you, you would not want the opportunity to hunt them down individually and get revenge?

    As a team they could beat you, but not 1 on 1.

    Or how about after a long hunt, you are low on ammo, nearly out of pots, and a level 180 pk's you. You know that with full supplies you would have a chance, but out of supplies you don't.

    And with the element of surprise, you can even drop a higher level player, or if you are using a team you might want to go after that higher level to get your revenge.

    So ya, the desire will be there. The problem is that by getting pz lock and being the "aggressor" the odds are being heavily stacked against you.
    31.08.2010 22:40:32
    Quote Post #28355984

     
    Aleppe

    Inhabitant of Nerana
    Profession: Elder Druid
    Level: 147

    Posts: 5847


    @ Virtual Orange skull within 15 mins after pvp death:

    So, the point is to deal with Orange skulls hidden behind white skulls for 15 mins after an unjustified frag: I'm afraid that we'll need to virtually mark somehow unmarked chars to their killers for 15 minutes.

    Can't be a yellow skull-like mark for obvious reasons: I'm thinking to something like a special automatic unjust-party between killers/victim lasting for 15 mins from victims' pvp death.

    This would solve not only Alecto's concern about mutual pz lock troubles between chars involved in the same pvp event which brought victim's pvp death, but even prevent 'virtual orange skull' abuse scenarios.

    To fix even Alecto's concerns about mutual swapping troubles between killers/victim within the 15 mins after victim's pvp death, we should change even parties' swaps making them possible regardless of who damaged who within the same party.


    Aleppe

    [edit]

    And yes, I consider this a major issue.
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    07.09.2010 13:09:12
    Edited by Aleppe
    on 07.09.2010 13:12:12
    Quote Post #28411958

     
    Magus Firefly

    Inhabitant of Refugia
    Profession: Master Sorcerer
    Level: 225

    Smilodon of the Sixth Extinction

    Posts: 5151


    Hi

    Originally posted by Aleppe on 07.09.2010 13:09:12:
    > @ Virtual Orange skull within 15 mins after pvp
    > death
    :
    >
    > So, the point is to deal with Orange skulls hidden
    > behind white skulls for 15 mins after an unjustified
    > frag: I'm afraid that we'll need to virtually mark
    > somehow unmarked chars to their killers for 15
    > minutes.
    >
    > Can't be a yellow skull-like mark for obvious
    > reasons: I'm thinking to something like a special
    > automatic unjust-party between killers/victim
    > lasting for 15 mins from victims' pvp death.
    >
    > This would solve not only Alecto's concern about
    > mutual pz lock troubles between chars involved in the
    > same pvp event which brought victim's pvp death, but
    > even prevent 'virtual orange skull' abuse scenarios.
    >
    > To fix even Alecto's concerns about mutual swapping
    > troubles between killers/victim within the 15 mins
    > after victim's pvp death, we should change even
    > parties' swaps making them possible regardless of who
    > damaged who within the same party.
    >
    >
    > Aleppe
    >
    > [edit]
    >
    > And yes, I consider this a major issue.

    Not 100% sure if I understand you:

    The parties you spoke about are only those unjust-parties?

    So you want that both sides are able to swap with each other to avoid possible abuses (for instance when the "victim" is part of a killing party who try to kill the player who killed it).

    Sounds like a good idea for me
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    07.09.2010 14:49:44
    Quote Post #28412465

     
    Craban
    Product Manager

    Inhabitant of Arcania
    Profession: None
    Level: 4

    Posts: 4103


    Public feedback can start here in a few minutes.
    ________________
    I'm not a man of too many faces,
    The mask I wear is one.

    (Sting)
    A very good approach on how to play Tibia WITH others rather than AGAINST!
    10.09.2010 18:30:31
    Quote Post #28438595

     
    Seymour Dria

    Inhabitant of Aurea
    Profession: Elder Druid
    Level: 100

    Mage of the Gity

    Posts: 22
    Not a good idea.

    it should be a good idea in another game that players can kill another players solo, kill players in 1x1 in tibia happens only when the battle is between low lvls mages, the most in tibia battle 1x1 u can go in bathroom and back and u character be still alive, im not complaining its a good thing battles in tibia are rly exciting, but this orange skull will mean waste potions to both sides or mean that u cant hunt in the next week(if u are low lvl). maybe this skull to the next 8 hours 12 hours, 7 days a lot time for me
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    11.09.2010 00:31:52
    Quote Post #28441187

     
    Tannylouise

    Inhabitant of Mythera
    Profession: Elite Knight
    Level: 148

    Ruby Dragon of the Bound by Blood (Devil Woman)

    Posts: 2636


    I got killed on test server by a stack - I went back to identify who killed me and as they were all red skulls or white skulls I couldn't see the orange skull.

    I know I can go and check on real tibia website to find who killed me but attacking the wrong red skull (especially in a stack) gets me pz.

    Is there anyway to identify them during the 15 mins after a death?

    Tanny
    ________________
    Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply.Speak kindly.
    Tutor 22.11.05 Senior 22.02.06
    11.09.2010 00:44:16
    Quote Post #28441287

     
    Inemesis

    Inhabitant of Silvera
    Profession: Master Sorcerer
    Level: 111

    Whisky of the Manguasseiros

    Posts: 742


    Bad bad idea...
    ________________
    Theres more than we deny and there's more than meet's the eye.
    11.09.2010 04:19:30
    Quote Post #28442734

     
    Inhert

    Inhabitant of Solera
    Profession: Royal Paladin
    Level: 64

    Overlord of the Blood Legacy (Bleeding Mascara)

    Posts: 4
    Exclamation 

    If the guy has killed you once, he can kill you twice. So revenge skull is kinda useless the way it is.
    How about if the entire guild of the victim could see that skull? So they can help him on his revenge. That will give guilds a different role on this game.
    ________________
    And then there was silence...
    11.09.2010 11:47:45
    Quote Post #28444227

     
    Cathbad

    Inhabitant of Nerana
    Profession: Master Sorcerer
    Level: 103

    Posts: 132


    @ Magus:

    I've waited to reply you after having done some tests, and the result is that to fix this issue would require a lot of efforts and it might bring more cons than pros.

    I'd call it Virtual Revenge skull (white skull hiding the orange one) waiting to see how it works in regular servers.


    @ Tanny:

    I got killed on test server by a stack - I went back to identify who killed me and as they were all red skulls or white skulls I couldn't see the orange skull.

    You've just described which will be the tactic of smart Virtual Orange skulled people


    @ Inhert:

    If the guy has killed you once, he can kill you twice. So revenge skull is kinda useless the way it is.


    It depends:
    • If victim's lv < killer's level, yes
    • If victim's level > killer's level, not
    As you can see even in this thread, I've not a great fan of this feature, but, at the end, like Craban said, there aren't particular cons.

    How about if the entire guild of the victim could see that skull? So they can help him on his revenge. That will give guilds a different role on this game.

    Well, when we started to talk about revenge skull in Focus Group, it was party/guild based: we had to switch to duel mode (although duels in Tibia are senseless if not talking about victims and killers on different level ranges) because it could be highly abused by griefers/cheaters gangs.
    ________________
    Ancients may be gone, but their magic is not.
    Time ago I dreamed magic for the moon, and she still dances for me now as she did then. Cathbad is my name, and I'm still dreaming.
    11.09.2010 12:24:20
    Edited by Cathbad
    on 11.09.2010 12:25:33
    Quote Post #28444427

     
    Craban
    Product Manager

    Inhabitant of Arcania
    Profession: None
    Level: 4

    Posts: 4103


    ok, it seems that here, there is not much to do anymore. I know there are different opinions, but none of the criticism seems to be very harsh or concern real problems.

    I guess we'll leave this feature as it is now.
    ________________
    I'm not a man of too many faces,
    The mask I wear is one.

    (Sting)
    A very good approach on how to play Tibia WITH others rather than AGAINST!
    13.09.2010 12:05:33
    Quote Post #28459978

     
    Stonejaw the Brute

    Inhabitant of Solera
    Profession: Knight
    Level: 23

    Posts: 85


    Avoiding the revenge skull 'workaround'
    I just thought id point out here that one real flaw in the revenge skull is its limited duration if calculated according to real life time .. I suggest this because A lot (most even) of random player killer characters are not active or main characters they tend in my experence to log in one time every month if that , take their red/black skull then dissappear offline for another long period of real time.

    I would like to suggest here that the revenge skull be timed differently in that it should exist for the same duration of actual game time. I beleave this would be far more effective as
    a) a detterent to unjustified player killing sprees, and
    b) a system whereby those who are unjustly killed may reasonably expect their revenge

    Eg: if the pk character logs out only to return next month or next year his revenge skull could persist untill he has worn it for 7 days of actual in-game time

    Regards,.
    Stonejaw.
    15.09.2010 16:39:18
    Quote Post #28477172

     
    Craban
    Product Manager

    Inhabitant of Arcania
    Profession: None
    Level: 4

    Posts: 4103


    Interesting proposal, but I can say straight up that this would force us to save a lot more data than we would like to.

    So for now, I won't do this, but when this has been online for a while, I'll check how the feature is used and I will remember your proposal.
    ________________
    I'm not a man of too many faces,
    The mask I wear is one.

    (Sting)
    A very good approach on how to play Tibia WITH others rather than AGAINST!
    15.09.2010 17:05:21
    Quote Post #28477385

     
    Oimetra Ska

    Inhabitant of Silvera
    Profession: Royal Paladin
    Level: 113

    Royal of the New Freedom

    Posts: 1561


    Theres no way i'll atack an oragne skull if it'll get me pz locked, why?

    Easy... if he was higher lvl he will kill me again, if i was killed by a gang of lower lvls he will just get his gang again and kill me again, if i was killed by a bunch of lower lvls, it means they are well organized and that they do not care about getting an injust. Not to mention this gangs are usually way bigger than the team that kills you, so they can avoid red skulling.

    Oim~
    ________________
    Keep Walking...
    16.09.2010 22:41:21
    Quote Post #28488053

     
    Tannylouise

    Inhabitant of Mythera
    Profession: Elite Knight
    Level: 148

    Ruby Dragon of the Bound by Blood (Devil Woman)

    Posts: 2636


    I do believe that the orange skull needs to be treated the same way as the white skull of who killed you.

    You can attack them and still go into pz.

    Now it's being treated the same way as if you attacked any white skull you saw and you get a yellow skull and are now pz locked.

    For revenge to work properly, you need the opportunity to attack them back and if you can't defeat them, the opportunity to get back safely into pz.

    This encourages pvp revenge fights whereas with the pz lock, a lower or equal level may not try to take revenge in case they die again.

    Tanny
    ________________
    Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply.Speak kindly.
    Tutor 22.11.05 Senior 22.02.06
    16.09.2010 22:52:50
    Quote Post #28488137

     
    Elven Jaris

    Inhabitant of Solera
    Profession: Elder Druid
    Level: 221

    One of the Prophecy

    Posts: 211


    Ok I get the ideal behind this. but what about if someone steels from me and I wish to kill them to try and obtain justice for what they have done. They get an orange skull on me for 7 days where they can KILL me while I'm hunting or doing other things, when it was them who did the injustice in the first place? this doesn't sound fair to me...
    ________________
    Freedom is NEVER Free...
    17.09.2010 00:05:06
    Edited by Elven Jaris
    on 17.09.2010 00:07:32
    Quote Post #28488683

     
    Doomer zargazmo

    Inhabitant of Zanera
    Profession: Sorcerer
    Level: 26

    Posts: 1


    a disatvantage i see here is the peroid of time the orange skull is on. say they get the orange skull, then the pk just logs out for 7 days and logs in again.
    a) the person who could have wanted revenge couldnt find him because the pk never went online while the "revenge time" was running.

    b)the pk feels safe knowing he can just go play with another character

    i suggest that, maybe no really 7 days of online time like somebody said earlier but like maybe 35 hours of online time
    17.09.2010 01:11:36
    Quote Post #28489232

     
    Drowjs

    Inhabitant of Danera
    Profession: Master Sorcerer
    Level: 115

    Greed of the Seven Deadly Sinz

    Posts: 86


    retired thx
    17.09.2010 03:33:46
    Quote Post #28489942

     
    Ghostly Achmed

    Inhabitant of Berylia
    Profession: Sorcerer
    Level: 27

    Posts: 7


    We don't want it !


    Short history:
    I going to exp when random player insulted me. I killed him when i waste my frag on him and i wear skull which only he see. So it's not fair. I killed him beacuse i gave reason and i must waste my frag and waer stupid skull? He can kill me and dont waste frag on me.
    17.09.2010 14:55:21
    Quote Post #28492668

     

    Página 3:

    Aleppe

    Inhabitant of Nerana
    Profession: Elder Druid
    Level: 147

    Posts: 5847


    Originally posted by Ghostly Achmed on 17.09.2010 14:55:21:
    > We don't want it !
    >
    >
    > Short history:
    > I going to exp when random player insulted me. I
    > killed him when i waste my frag on him and i wear
    > skull which only he see. So it's not fair. I killed
    > him beacuse i gave reason and i must waste my frag
    > and waer stupid skull? He can kill me and dont waste
    > frag on me.

    If you kill him alone either he's on a lower level than your one or he is a pvp-noob: in both cases I don't see what's your problem to result revenge skulled to him.


    Aleppe
    ________________
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    17.09.2010 15:00:18
    Quote Post #28492698

     
    Matikso Druid

    Inhabitant of Askara
    Profession: Druid
    Level: 95

    Life of the Awesome

    Posts: 62


    Originally posted by Craban on 27.08.2010 13:08:37:
    > What is it?
    >
    > Very simple: If you get killed unjustified by player
    > A, this player A will have an orange skull just
    > visible for you for a maximum of 7 days. This means
    > that you can attack and kill him justified within 7
    > days after your death. As soon as you kill him once,
    > he will also lose that skull. If he killed you 3
    > times, you can also kill him 3 times back before he
    > loses the skull, unless you take too long.
    >
    > If you attack an orange skull, you will receive a PZ
    > block and the orange skull can defend because you
    > then get a yellow skull for him.
    >
    > What should be tested?
    >
    > - Does it work correctly?
    > - Are there ways to abuse this?
    > - Does it break anything else in the game?

    Tibia will be sux ! :[
    17.09.2010 15:06:33
    Quote Post #28492735

     
    Lighter King

    Inhabitant of Selena
    Profession: Paladin
    Level: 16

    Posts: 2
    Unhappy DOnt like revenge skull

    I really dont like this one because sometime we kill lvl 100++ and we are lvl 40 so he can revenge and just kills us 1 one for one that is not funny.I think wait 15 min (sometimes your friend say kill him you just go and kill him you wait your 15 mins then the person who you kill will come whit his friens so they will take pk and you will call your friends thats the ral funny whats the funny in wait 7 days your friends can be ther all the day.)
    And wars no one will like it they just can wait 7 days for kill the guy who kill him/her? to other team no one who wants to take pk. just wait

    Thats waht i think

    remove all this new pvp rules , the funny of tibia was hunting people and when they death they lost alot of exp even whit blessing now they won't lost anythnig whit this new bless. " pliz make tiba as funny as it was"
    We love tibia pvp and now is just like another game.
    18.09.2010 00:33:28
    Quote Post #28496734

     
    Arkangel'Reanimator

    Inhabitant of Jamera
    Profession: Knight
    Level: 30

    Posts: 2
    It is the worst

    i dont like in all revenge skull. I really dont like any new pvp rules i just like the trap rule.
    I play tiba since 7.8 And i think this is the worst new update that you ever made sorry for say it but is the true.
    This Is the update worst for me like the another guy says
    "This is tibia no another game"
    The tibia pvp was the best.
    and now i think it wont be the same is just bad!
    Plix made tibia as it was before no put new pvp!!

    WE dont want it!!!!!!
    18.09.2010 00:45:17
    Quote Post #28496809

     
    Tannylouise

    Inhabitant of Mythera
    Profession: Elite Knight
    Level: 148

    Ruby Dragon of the Bound by Blood (Devil Woman)

    Posts: 2636


    Originally posted by Lighter King on 18.09.2010 00:33:28:
    > I really dont like this one because sometime we
    > kill lvl 100++ and we are lvl 40 so he can revenge
    > and just kills us 1 one for one that is not funny.I
    > think wait 15 min (sometimes your friend say kill him
    > you just go and kill him you wait your 15 mins then
    > the person who you kill will come whit his friens so
    > they will take pk and you will call your friends
    > thats the ral funny whats the funny in wait 7 days
    > your friends can be ther all the day.)
    > And wars no one will like it they just can wait 7
    > days for kill the guy who kill him/her? to other
    > team no one who wants to take pk. just wait
    >

    And sometimes level 40's kill neutral non war related players and they can't take revenge by the time they get blessings and find where you have hidden.

    Now you have to choose, do we kill him and know he can come after us for 7 days or do you not.

    Choices have come back into the game. Open PVP means exactly that. You can choose to pk, but now you do so knowing that player has 7 days to take revenge no matter where you hid, how many chars you had protecting you or noob chars blocking access to you.

    It's time for pvp, smart players and skills to come back into the game.

    Tanny
    ________________
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    Tutor 22.11.05 Senior 22.02.06
    18.09.2010 08:46:37
    Quote Post #28498482

     
    Alexena

    Inhabitant of Lunara
    Profession: Royal Paladin
    Level: 188

    Moon Shadow of the Azure Twilight

    Posts: 962
    Stuck Tongue Out 

    Hahahaha i just got to laugh really , i see so many complaints that pvp is dead and this will kill it more bah i would take a good guess that the ones saying this are the very people whole kill for their own jollies, are in leading and or war guilds and perish the thought that the poor schmuck of a victim will now have the means to fight back because his death will cost less and he gets time to form his revenge.

    I really hope the days of "killing to abuse to hurt to run off the server, make people suffer" all phrases used by grifers will become a thing of the past.

    If you kill then be a man and take the consequences and be prepared to be killed or dont play open pvp if you dont like it.

    Crying that your victim can now fight back shows just what kind of a coward you really are. The system i know works for the bad as well as the good, so live with it give it a chance and well if you like to kill but not beeeee killed i suggest you go non pvp
    18.09.2010 09:15:22
    Quote Post #28498562

     
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