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Feature: Stairhopping Delay

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Craban
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What is it?

This is actually only a fix to an issue that came with the 2 second attack delay after going up or down ladders, rope spots etc. This was introduced to protect monsters, but it also protects players. Therefore, you can now attack players also within the first 2 seconds, but only with single directed attacks, so no area runes, field runes, area spells, burst arrows etc. (pretty much like black skulls too).

What should be tested?

- Does it work correctly?
- Are there ways to abuse this?
- Does it break anything else in the game?
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27.08.2010 12:58:47
Quote Post #28317442

 
Alecto Misc

Inhabitant of Danubia
Profession: Knight
Level: 17

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Don'Tribioni (233MS) and Retri~(45MS) tested the stair hopping.

No delay on the attacks when changing levels.

Then Don became the "pk'r" and Retri was stairhopping to try to escape.

Don commented that he felt he would be able to kill the lower level now that the delay is gone.

So it going to work as intended for 1 on 1.

----

Additional test done in a hunting spot (bear cave) and the 2 second block on area spells works like intended.

Single attacks just fine, no area damage.
27.08.2010 23:05:11
Edited by Alecto Misc
on 27.08.2010 23:18:16
Quote Post #28322090

 
Craban
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Looks like this one is clean, any objections?
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28.08.2010 13:45:02
Quote Post #28326189

 
Aleppe

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It won't be clean until we won't be able to sort players/mobs in battle list like we want, given that in a crowed room just aim-botters will be able to aim their targets with no delay.

Also, something should be done to fix 'jumping' knights, given that they are the only vocation with weak distance attacks.

But well, one can't obtain all at once.


Aleppe
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28.08.2010 16:18:50
Quote Post #28327120

 
Alecto Misc

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Originally posted by Aleppe on 28.08.2010 16:18:50:
> It won't be clean until we won't be able to sort
> players/mobs in battle list like we want, given that
> in a crowed room just aim-botters will be able to aim
> their targets with no delay.
>
> Also, something should be done to fix 'jumping'
> knights, given that they are the only vocation with
> weak distance attacks.
>
> But well, one can't obtain all at once.
>
>
> Aleppe

Aleppe makes a good point about the sorting on the battle box. Regretfully that has not been part of the discussion, nor part of this solution.
28.08.2010 16:45:14
Quote Post #28327319

 
Craban
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It is however already being considered in the development of the flash client, so let us all hope that my collegues come up with a good solution to this problem.
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28.08.2010 16:48:21
Quote Post #28327346

 
Aleppe

Inhabitant of Nerana
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Level: 147

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Well, there is another issue here: I've tried to staihop stacking below a NPC in Yal magician quarter (08:46 Ortheus: What's your business here with the magicians, Aleppe?) 1x hero spawn: I could use avalanche with no delay.

Can somebody check it too?
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29.08.2010 08:52:53
Edited by Aleppe
on 29.08.2010 08:58:26
Quote Post #28332914

 
Azriel

Inhabitant of Shivera
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It's fine as long as the fighters do not cheat. Aim-botters (target lock) will have a big advantage over non-cheaters.

Yours,
Azzy
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17:31 Exorz [206]: why gonna help him xd
17:31 Azriel [83]: Cuz I'm Azriel, haha
29.08.2010 10:38:10
Quote Post #28333231

 
Enyx Deathweaver

Inhabitant of Berylia
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Posts: 2975


Well hopefully the autodetection system does its job then.. :d
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29.08.2010 10:43:55
Quote Post #28333262

 
Azriel

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Originally posted by Aleppe on 29.08.2010 08:52:53:
> Well, there is another issue here: I've tried to
> staihop stacking below a NPC in Yal magician quarter
> (08:46 Ortheus: What's your business here with the
> magicians, Aleppe?) 1x hero spawn: I could use
> avalanche with no delay.
>
> Can somebody check it too?

Nothing like that happened to me. I've tested it at same place and with same runes as you.

Yours,
Azzy
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17:31 Exorz [206]: why gonna help him xd
17:31 Azriel [83]: Cuz I'm Azriel, haha
29.08.2010 11:13:58
Quote Post #28333413

 
Aleppe

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Originally posted by Azriel on 29.08.2010 11:13:58:
> Originally posted by Aleppe on 29.08.2010
> 08:52:53
:
> > Well, there is another issue here: I've tried to
> > staihop stacking below a NPC in Yal magician
> quarter
> > (08:46 Ortheus: What's your business here with the
> > magicians, Aleppe?) 1x hero spawn: I could use
> > avalanche with no delay.
> >
> > Can somebody check it too?
>
> Nothing like that happened to me. I've tested it at
> same place and with same runes as you.
>
> Yours,
> Azzy

Hmm, so I have to thank my lags once more...
Thx to have checked it!


Aleppe
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29.08.2010 12:23:22
Quote Post #28333779

 
Craban
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So, apart from older problems, this feature in itself seems to not require any more tuning in this test.
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30.08.2010 16:58:09
Quote Post #28343698

 
Magus Firefly

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Hi

Yes this features seems to work exactly like intended.
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30.08.2010 17:11:28
Quote Post #28343800

 
Craban
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Public feedback can start here in a few minutes.
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10.09.2010 18:31:39
Quote Post #28438600

 
Eddie Sariban

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Works perfectly and was highly demanded, a great step taken!
10.09.2010 20:44:57
Quote Post #28439636

 
La Kida

Inhabitant of Premia
Profession: Royal Paladin
Level: 56

Posts: 278


even with this rule removed its impossible to kill someone that jumps up and down strais as long as they have potions or mana to heal with why not just make all attacks works like before but put a 2 secounds exhastion on walking up and down things as long as your not in a pz zone (you should be able to move freely in your own house)

that would eliminate the way people jumped up and shot area of effect spells on monsters and then jumped down to be safe, if your trapped up there for 2 secounds it will give the monsters equal chance to attack the player as it is now but also the chance for players to attack back,
it makes no sense that you would allow monsters to hit you for 2 seconds and maybe even die without attacking back
where it makes more sense that you would be exhasted from walking up stairs, or climb a rope/ladder.
11.09.2010 02:28:17
Quote Post #28442007

 
Aissy

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Posts: 561


This change sounds good so far.

It would be even better, as someone suggested, that if your target switches floor your attack on him will still hold for 1 (or maybe more) seconds (this seems to happen sometimes already but it does not happen all the time).
So if your target switch floor and you go after him you dont need to retake attack on him after every floor change.
This should limit the effectiveness of escaping by jumping in stairs etc
11.09.2010 18:33:23
Quote Post #28446559

 
Slashmaster

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Has anyone proposed making all skulled players on your screen appear at the top of the battle window above all non skulled players? This could help with having to scroll through the mob of players in your battle window to find the skulled people.
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12.09.2010 11:46:56
Edited by Slashmaster
on 12.09.2010 11:47:11
Quote Post #28451922

 
Craban
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It seems that people are ok with this change as such. The only feedback here concerns additional problems with chasing someone across stairs, but it seems, the fix itself receives no criticism at all, so no reason to work on this fix either.

Additional topics concerning aiming, battle list etc are worked on with the flash client, but will not be relevant here.
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13.09.2010 12:12:04
Quote Post #28460010

 
Deathrider Mot

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Profession: Paladin
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Posts: 389


It's a step in the right direction however I must say:

1. it was better completely untouched (before spell/level change delay)

2. This new change doesn't make much difference; instead of being hit with a wand 1 time you get hit with an SD one time. Unless you can kill the person in 1 single hit (unlikely), then they can still stair hop and heal for as long as they want.

Stairhopping will not be solved until we see a stairway usage exhaustion feature which functions similar to the "anti spam" feature, IE, hopping up and down a stairway 10 times in rapid succession would cause a delay of several seconds the next time you want to use it.
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13.09.2010 19:45:11
Quote Post #28463061

 

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Ab Devil

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Originally posted by Deathrider Mot on 13.09.2010 19:45:11:
>
> Stairhopping will not be solved until we see a
> stairway usage exhaustion feature which functions
> similar to the "anti spam" feature, IE, hopping up
> and down a stairway 10 times in rapid succession
> would cause a delay of several seconds the next time
> you want to use it.


That's the first time you've ever said anything that is interesting and worthy of being looked into. Stairhopping exhaustion is an interesting idea that should be explored further. Perhaps as part of phase 2.
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13.09.2010 21:13:31
Quote Post #28463836

 
Sharp Dressed Man

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Thumbs up 

Excellent work. This is a change for the better =)
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16.09.2010 07:01:48
Quote Post #28482528

 
Guardakan

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Posts: 544


i like alot the change but :


Originally posted by Craban on 27.08.2010 12:58:47:
> What is it?
>
[...]
> - Are there ways to abuse this?

we come back to point A :

cheaters will stack in ankrahmun with their "auto sd" and enemy list and wait untill one of their war enemies come on their screen. as soon as he does : HEADSHOT.

my opinion :

put it differently :

still only 8 people on a stack can attack / be attacked, BUT NOT THE FIRST 8 ON THE STACK.

lets say there are only 8 players on a stack, they all can attack/be attacked.

but if you have 9 players : players #1,2,3,4,5,6,7,9 could attack.

lets say u have 16 : players #1, 3,5,7,9,11,13,15.

this would ensure that you could not stack in order to abuse protection for a skulled character (since adding more people to the stack shows different players than previously), but you still couldnt stack in ank with cheaters killing you instantly.

(i do not support cheating)




2nd way to fix the problem ::: nobody is hidden on a stack and cip updates their bot detection system to automatically delete any player detected AS SOON AS HE IS DETECTED, ensuring nobody can use the stack to headshot people with cheats opened
16.09.2010 20:14:14
Edited by Guardakan
on 16.09.2010 20:15:46
Quote Post #28486825

 
Guardakan

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edit, wrong thread... nvm
17.09.2010 03:11:07
Quote Post #28489840

 
Azran Laran

Inhabitant of Dolera
Profession: Knight
Level: 25

Posts: 6


Craban, is it possible to have the client lock on with red box to give non aim botters a chance to stairhop fight on even grounds? I dont imagine it would be that hard to streamline into the autumn patch even.



maybe im wrong though
17.09.2010 05:19:19
Quote Post #28490471

 
Magus Firefly

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Hi

Originally posted by Guardakan on 16.09.2010 20:14:14:

>
> 2nd way to fix the problem ::: nobody is hidden on a
> stack and cip updates their bot detection system to
> automatically delete any player detected AS SOON AS
> HE IS DETECTED, ensuring nobody can use the stack to
> headshot people with cheats opened

Fully support this point! All who use warbots should be instantly deleted.

I would also delete all accounts caught for botting who are less then 3 month old (no matter what bots they use).

This would solve many problems
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17.09.2010 09:42:47
Quote Post #28491265

 
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